I think for a lot of us…we are extremely tired and disgusted with being treated like lab rats, by these kinds of studies…And by chance, are the ultimate goal of these studies to “find a cure for us”?
So, so many of us just want to have a voice, to be accurately represented and respected for who and what we are…not be poked and prodded by researchers, who think they are going to change or control us.
Issues like left handedness and brain matter may be interesting, as trivia…but they don’t really get to the heart, of the social problems we find ourselves entrenched in…and they feel a lot like “rabbit hole” issues being chased.
So much of this is very, very personally familiar…
…The only thing I really don’t recall from my own early years, is the big hoopla being documented in that video…the inflatable bouncers, and festival atmosphere…but everything else is dead on.
This is a very good documentary [which Child Evangelism Fellowship is presently attempting to take down], spelling out some of the conflicting issues with regards to these kinds of groups running clubs in public schools.
They call themselves the “Good News Club”…Yet another theme, which sounds extremely familiar to me.
This exact type of age targeting, is something which I’ve written [and perhaps talked] about in the past…It is something I strongly disagree with, most especially when religion is taught as fact or even historical fact.
I can be very critical of religion, and have the personal history which warrants this…Yet, I like to think that I normally keep myself very reserved and highly tolerant, even of religion…
…I do not believe that voluntary students should be barred from having a bible class on public school property, after normal classes are over…for example…And for the record, in the USA they are not, anyway…and I agree, that things should be this way.
It gets far more dicey…when you have these large organizations, who are genuinely outsiders…forcing themselves into your schools, and telling you that they want your little kids…and what is going on in that video, is blatant indoctrination of kids who commonly lack the mental faculties to ward off what is happening to them.
It certainly is not that I believe young children should be sheltered from all knowledge of religion…but when you really start dissecting what is actually being taught by these groups…I mean…Personally, I really appreciate the part of this documentary where the woman points out one of their lessons [from one of their own books], where a biblical story of genocide is used to teach “a moral” about obeying “god” completely…[here is a hint, in case you don’t watch this video: Saul is punished by “god”, for failing to annihilate the Amalekites (men, women, children and their animals)…Somehow, this is put on par with “not sweeping the floor thoroughly, when you were told to sweep the floor”]…
…”If you only partly obey, you’re actually being disobedient”…
This is an excellent example, of how utterly warped and lost the moral orientation is of many religious organizations.
…I mean, that alone is flat out demented…and they don’t see the conflicting paradox, of using something like that [which one would rationally think, should cause horror and revulsion], in order to “teach good morals”…by equating the thing itself, with “good morality”…
They might as well be telling those kids [and everyone else], that “Adam Lanza was commanded by god, to slaughter the wicked children of Newtown”…or pick any number of other atrocities happening today, or in our past…The only thing separating those cases from “the Amalekites”, is that they aren’t recorded in the bible, and nobody has claimed [in most cases] that “god commanded it to be done”…But if you believe it was true for saul, then how can you discount the possibility for Adam?
You know what is so maddening to me?…It’s that so many of the people behind these groups are good hearted, well intended people…When faced with the actual thing [ie: school shootings], they are genuinely as horrified, sad and disgusted as any of the rest of us…Yet they cannot wrap their minds around the fact, that if saul really did slaughter the Amalekites…then it was every bit as inhumane, horrific and wicked, as what happened to the children of Newtown [or any number of other cases]…Provided it was not pure fiction, then it was a monstrosity…a crime against humanity…
…And that is what some people want and actively use, as a model?
I encountered these kinds of “morality lessons”, myself…several times over…Almost certainly this one, but also the one with moses…which is extremely bloody. This is a very real phenomena, within the christian branch of theology.
I absolutely do not support that sort of thing being pushed onto kids…Nor the idea, that they are born wicked and deserving of death, and eternal torment in hell.
People should know better than to be doing that…But those good hearted people…So many of them have spent either most or all of their lives, in the isolated atmosphere built and maintained by fundamentalist organizations…
I’ve known people like this all of my life…It’s as though they’ve literally been stripped of the ability to think clearly…What do you even do with people in that state?…Because they are really at the crux of the problem…
…And yes…Speaking as someone who came through [and out of] that sort of an environment, I can attest that it is a problem…Not to over dramatize [if that’s possible], but when you are raised in it…you always come out of it with a lot of psychological, emotional, moral baggage…and you’re left on your own, to work through the mess…which was honestly the making, of people the likes of those behind Child Evangelism Fellowship…
…The experience is psychological hell, for “a sex pervert”…
How do people who sincerely intend to do good…end up doing things which are so utterly fucked up?…and when they so blatantly should know better?
There is no possible way that you can take any story of genocide, committed against an entire people because they did not share your theological outlook…and spin it in a good light…
…And teaching that very sort of thing to even very young children…It makes me wonder where such people’s heads are at, when they start going on rants about “violent video games”, and other cultural influences…
A lot of the influences in the bible, are particularly awful…Yet so few imagine it good, to outwardly say such…So few understand, when it is time to look inward, and admit what is wrong within their own camp.
I don’t need to resort to name calling or attempts to insult, because I’m fairly certain that my presence here IS positive and IS valuable, regardless of what you say.”
…You’ve learned some important lessons about “cabinet maker”, here…
That particular individual has a long, notorious history of relentlessly trying to pick fights with people on BoyChat, by being personally malicious and vindictive…and behaving in smarmy, underhanded ways.
They are pretty much a one trick pony, in that regard.
One hallmark of “cabinet maker”…is their tendency to force themselves into a thread, by accusing people of “whatever” and forcefully asserting it as “true”…Typically, their claim is entirely out of context to the thread of discussion…Often, it is an outright lie, made just to get jabs in at people…Then, they bash, smear and ridicule you, based on whatever it is they have made up about you…And for those who take the bait, “cabinet maker” goes on an obsessive, immature exchange of posts…defiling threads and BoyChat itself, by making the atmosphere here as absolutely abhorrent and uninviting, as is humanly possible.
They also have this peculiar tendency, to be obviously guilty of many of the exact same things, which they are attacking others over…Sometimes, incredulously, right in the immediate act of attacking…making them a brazen hypocrite.
slvrspun is right…”cabinet maker” gives off all the signs of a sociopath stalker.
I noticed “cabinet maker” has continued their obsessive following of me, probably spouting their usual nastiness below…It’s amazing how much attention I get from them, considering how little I post here…Anyway, I hope you will take whatever it is they said in it’s deserved context, considering the abysmal integrity of the source.
People of integrity do not have to resort to what “cabinet maker” almost universally defaults with.
As a personal bit of advice…Rule of thumb, if a post is made by “cabinet maker”…just don’t open it…It wont stop that troll from littering the index with fight threads [because somebody else will always open and respond to those posts], but it will make your reading here much more productive and pleasurable.
Oh…and I should echo one thing…BoyChat honestly is monitored by people, who can be extremely dangerous towards us…A lot of us [myself included] have watched our friends lives get destroyed, because they were loose with their private information.
BoyChat is not like other forums…and it’s extremely important not to out yourself here.
…Stuffed animals and hand puppets, that is…Most of them are long gone [as is the blanket my grandmother made for me]. I gave most of this stuff away, along with other sorts of toys…”sandbox toys”, and so forth.
A few of them, I wish I’d have kept…but, when there is a next generation [nephews], it makes no sense for this stuff to set idle and neglected.
Most of what I still have, is small nick knacks…Though, there are maybe three or four note worthy items…One of those is my red frog.
This frog was never given a name…My mother went through a phase where she was making stuffed animals [buying the patterns at craft stores], and this one was a “prototype” practice run for frogs…They turned out pretty nice, really…but she gave this one to me, probably as an after thought…All the others were green, but this one was red…because that’s just the color of the scrap material, which was used to make it…It’s underbelly was made out of one of my old shirts, too…So it has a connection to my boyhood self…and the eyes are sewn on buttons…
I intentionally refused to let this one go, even when all the others went to a new home.
…I finally had to give up my small “Winnie the Pooh”…It had this really interesting stuffing, in that it was more like clear plastic beads…tiny ones…and he had worn so badly, that they were falling out of him.
It felt horrible dropping him into the trash can…In fact, I picked out a spot for him, which more/less cradled him…so he’d be comfortable and not awkward…
I was probably five or so, but I’ve always remembered that experience…For some time, I held onto the notion that maybe the garbage man would see him, and take him home to his own kid…
…My bear ending up in a dump [or worse] was just horrible to comprehend…
If I recall right…mom had already sewn him up, previously…so…His condition was seemingly “terminal”. I loved that bear, though…Never did forget him.
I’m glad to see members of Virtuous Pedophiles responding here.
One harsh point about staking a plot, creating an identity and taking a stance [especially unconventional ones], is that you will not avoid being misinterpreted…and people [from every group] will come out of the woodwork, to malign your character and hurt you if they can.
…It’s difficult, because there are so many pitfalls…and sometimes, we trip over our own feet.
That said, I think it is most important to keep an open table where everyone can freely talk…Eventually, we can work our way through misunderstandings…and part of the reason why I appreciate VP members commenting here [on HereticTOC], is because I’ve had some of the reactions addressed here, myself…
I support their right to speak their minds and to openly exist as a group…I just have not concerned myself with engaging them.
To my mind, it is better to see an increased range of “pedophile” voices breaking through the free speech taboo placed on our heads, than to see less of us speaking…Even if I disagree with them strongly, I still see it as good that more and more “pedophiles” are engaging society, standing up for themselves and fighting the way things presently stand.
If nothing else…we are all creating a world, that is becoming accustomed to hearing/reading the real voices of real “pedophiles”…That alone is vital.
Lastly, I also know the feeling of being dismissed as “a problem” myself, for my own activities and projects…I think the most important principle here, is that we cannot be crowding each other out.
I am content enough to just openly exercise my true voice, even if nobody ever agreed with anything I said…It is when people try to take this single most basic of root freedoms away, that the ability to coexist breaks down…and I cannot live in a world created by that.
——
[My original comment – Not posted.]
This general issue came up when “virtuous pedophiles” first came online.
If they set themselves up as the standard of pedophile ethics, and they label themselves “virtuous”, then what are they implying [or outright saying] about the rest of us?
VP got a lot of negative reaction, as I recall…largely because they came off like just another exclusive and divisive initiative, out there trying to hijack the conversation…the movement…or however one wishes to label what we have…”the pedophile voice”?
Many find “virtuous pedophiles” to be fundamentally offensive, damaging towards solidarity and intellectually dishonest…and not what people like us need.
That said, I support their right to speak their minds and to openly exist as a group…I just have not concerned myself with engaging them.
To my mind, it is better to see an increased range of “pedophile” voices breaking through the free speech taboo placed on our heads, than to see less of us speaking…Even if I disagree with them strongly, I still see it as good that more and more “pedophiles” are engaging society, standing up for themselves and fighting the way things presently stand.
If nothing else…we are all creating a world, that is becoming accustomed to hearing/reading the real voices of real “pedophiles”…That alone is vital.
“I helped my pastor make this music video when I was in high school. Thought you guys might get a kick out of it! May the Lord bless and keep you. : )”
Most days, I feel like the absolute only voices even allowed heard, are of those who outright hate people like us…All other voices are gagged, unless they are submissive to those intolerant voices.
Everything inconvenient to their rigid social structure, they want whitewashed…
…and I have had far too many run-in’s with self identified victims [many quite loud, obnoxious and abusive], to ever buy into the lie that “victims have no voice”. Some of them are extremely nasty, abusive and even criminal in “exercising their voice”.
As to the sexual aggression of children…I can personally attest to this in my own experience…not as an adult, but as a kid. The person who I had my first sexual relations with [a female cousin of mine] pursued me relentlessly, when I was a tween. It stretched on for days…She was doing things like spontaneously sliding her hands down the front of my pants, into my underwear and grabbing me, even after I’d turned her away several times before…I eventually relented, because she was making/keeping me so damned horny. Prior to this point in my life, I had never looked at her in a sexual manner [I was attracted to other boys, after all]…But she decided she was going to have me. All things told, it was a nice experience…She never complained, either…Heck, it was her doing…She had/has no grounds for complaining…I was actively pushing her in the direction of not doing this, but she wouldn’t have any of that.
Some kids get extremely aggressive, when they want sex.
There are a lot of people, “professional” and laymen, who would tell me that I was sexually molested and sexually assaulted because of this life experience…Some might even suggest, that my cousin was also.
I prefer to allow my memories and cognition to speak for themselves.
Maybe I was genuinely molested in the beginning, since I didn’t really want to go through with that, with her…But it evolved into something which I can live fully at peace with.
My own experience as a boy, has been a powerful reason why I reject the claim that sexual contact destroys children…She was not the only one…I got unwanted sexual advances from another person, durring this time window. He was another “grabber”, and did pretty much the same thing as the girl…but that did not evolve anywhere. I was just really pissed off at him for a few days…after which, it was water under the bridge.
Similar to my experience, I’ve also had another BL share with me the story of his first sexual experience…an event that went way over the top, in my opinion [though sounded like mind blowing fun]…Similar to me, he also came to see this event in a positive way.
The worst thing about childhood, is that they never taught any of us anything about sexual ettequete. Consequentially, all the sexual encounters I had as a kid were ones that I stumbled clueless into…There was no negotiation…Just another frisky kid coming onto you, and helping themselves to your body [even when you were telling them “no”].
I suppose, it’s natural…and kids aren’t given the social tools to navigate their sexuality any better…So I can look past it, as regards to the individual kids behaviors. Things still shouldn’t be that way…and I blame it on the efforts to suppress childhood sexuality.
I really wish I’d not been kept so naive, for such a long span of my life…I was affraid of sex, on the grounds of religious mind conditioning…Thinking back to that aggressive boy, I now know that he was truly the one best chance I ever had, for a boy/boy sexual relationship.
…I could have lived with the fact, that he also was my cousin…but it was too bad, that he wasn’t more “my type”…Contrary to what many people think about BoyLovers, being attracted to boys in a general sense, does not mean that you have the same, equal attraction to all boys…Still, I think it would have been a very positive and exciting relationship to experience, had we both been able to embrace it…I’m sure it would have been a great memory.
I kick myself hard, over that lost opportunity…somewhat frequently…
…and that is what I think about the person, who legitimately molested me.
What can I say?…Life is complicated…And the supposed rules of how a kid is supposed to react to these things, in my experience, is utter hogwash.
01) Hand to hand combat on handedness
Our Love Frontier 