Daily Archives: May 13, 2013

‘Moderate’ Islam…


Odyssey_Islam
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Date: May 13, 2013

01) OtherChat Post

“My personal feeling is that the so-called ‘moderate’ Islam will ultimately be used as a wedge to force things toward the not-so-moderate Islam later on.”

This is something which has weighed really heavy on my mind, over the past several years.

It’s true enough, that you cannot blame most muslims for the seriously horrific acts, inspired by islam…for a variety of complex reasons…For one thing, most of them do not appear to be committing those sorts of acts, some are even very outspoken against it [which could make them targets, themselves]…though, in my opinion, not nearly enough take such a meaningful stand…Also, many such people are products of their own culture…where gruesome acts of atrocity may very well be the norm…I expect, humans are humans…and they likely don’t perceive a personal responsibility, over the fact that the world is a cruel place…just like so many other people, all over the globe…Or they just think, “their world is the normal world”…and for whatever reason, they think this is the way things are supposed to be…

…But what remains in the back of my mind…is the question, of just what good it does having millions of non-violent muslims in your culture…if their ultimate effect is creating a politically powerful social class, that will willingly push sharia into the local and national government?

The peaceful muslim immigrants take on a whole other slant, when you actually take a look at what is going on in other countries…Most recently, we have the “Arab spring” to consider…and how countries are curiously turning into sharia states…despite the fact for example, that the people originally behind the protests and overthrow of old regimes like that in Egypt, wanted absolutely nothing to do with a sharia state…Their revolution was hijacked, right out from underneath them.

Do I believe, that people would willingly give rise to a world ruled by sharia?…

…If that is just the life that they know, and they are conditioned to conform…Then yes, I do.

…Do I believe, that they care about the fate of native people in the cultures they wish to dominate with sharia?…Or, at least care enough to abort all aggressive actions directed at world dominance [which is a core principle of islam]?…Or to put it another way…Do I believe they will ever adopt a “live and let live” philosophy?…

…I have extremely little hope of it.

Islam has been around for over 700 years…And it is notorious, for it’s violent resistance to change and evolution…That is something, which really sets it apart…Only two denominations are recognised to exist…and at least one, seemingly wishes to destroy the other…

By my estimate…if islam were a more [relatively] healthy political, religious and social structure…it would have dozens of different denominations, by now…at least.

Regarding Sam…

…I can understand that criticism…and I wouldn’t call it wrong…But I also think islam is getting stronger reaction from many, because of it’s unique set of circumstances…

The other two Abrahamic religions are largely…well…broken down to the point, where world domination is outside their grasp…and there is a very substantial sentiment of “live and let live”, incorporated into modern judaism and christianity…In short, they’ve largely been tamed, cultured and domesticated…evolving far away, from their original roots.

Of course, I know some people might dispute even that…because they believe, jesus christ was a model of humanity to all, and christianity is supposed to be based on the example of jesus christ…But, the reality of organised religion is not so simple…And what we are ultimately forced to confront, is the actions of organised religion.

Could they become a threat again?…Very possibly, yes…But islam is clearly the one, with ambitions and credible resolve, as we set here today, right now.

Possibly, this is why Sam is much more accepting of the other two…We are accustomed to judaism and christianity, and they don’t seem as threatening as islam does.

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What gets under my skin…


Odyssey_Islam
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Date: May 13, 2013

01) Give religion a spray, the non-discriminatory way

What gets under my skin…

…is the way “islamophobia” gets thrown around…

Don’t get me wrong, because I do think there could be a legitimate context for using this term…It’s just that, it seems to pop up “everywhere”…

I get the sense, it’s usage is disingenuous…I mean, good grief…If we are honest, then we have to acknowledge that real, substantial discussion and observation on Islam [as a social concern], is just now beginning to gain momentum…Nobody was talking about this stuff, back in the 70’s, 80’s or 90’s…

There is a genuine culture clash, and a lot of “islamic culture values”, which are outright repugnant in, and inconsistent with, “western culture” [and I would judge, inferior]…There is also a visible trend, of islamists moving to “western” countries and wishing to import their “islamic culture” with them, to the extent of incorporating it into government…As opposed to embracing the culture of their host country…It is no surprise, that a lot of people are uneasy about this…Nor that they don’t like it, and want it to stop…

It’s because of stuff going on, like in the Netherlands…where they’ve been having very serious political and social problems, with islam oriented groups and organizations, which many other “westerners” are reacting in horror towards…And from what I have seen, it is entirely justified horror [as well as outrage].

…Just now, it feels we are getting to a point where we are starting to breach into healthy discussion, about islam and it’s world aspirations.

A large [if not the primary] part of the reason why Harris, Dawkins, etc, etc, have been so forceful in their approach, is because they have been attempting to push “western” cultures into a full on social discussion about what islamic aspirations mean to the rest of us.

…Something which I, and I think any rational person, would welcome…

This is not something which should be approached with silence, or meek appeasement…Islamic culture may be prideful…but that does not mean that it cannot, or should not, be subjected to strong criticism…or rejection, as a social model.

In the face of what has become demonstrable [islamic culture, hijacking countries and subduing their native populations]…anyone trying to retort, by throwing around the word “islamophobia”…as though they can shame the people expressing legitimate alarm, into silence…Those people clearly have their heads, up their own behinds.

…I sincerely wish people would stop resorting to this cowardly, deceitful, propagandist word “islamophobia”…and that they would actually address the fundamental concerns on the table. I mean, does anyone else stop and consider, just how often these “phobia” labels are evoked, simply to derail discussion and taint the image of others?…And yes, homophobia sometimes gets abusively used this way, also.

The point is…”islamophobia” is being used as a weapon, to halt a dialogue which needs to happen…and at a time, when that dialogue is still relatively fragile…There is something extremely wrong and creepy about that.

Islam deserves no privileges, above any other group…And I look upon this, with all the same distaste as I experience in the face of nearly any form of censorship.

Now…If Sam Harris has factually advocated violence, or anything like dehumanization, etc, etc, against any group…I would seriously take exception…and I would consider this to be a tragic, unfortunate turn for “the new atheists”. I’ve not personally seen this out of Harris…but then, I don’t follow him closely. I have previously held him in substantially high respect, though. What I’ve seen of him, has shown me that he has a good mind, and a gift for articulate communication that anyone can understand.

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