Date: December 21, 2013
Is this actually about changing the name, slogan, creed [or whatever] of BoyChat?
Would that be good enough, or do you just want every one of us with experiences and opinions “too controversial”, to disappear and never be seen again?
See…this is one of the colossal problems I have, with those amongst us who have appointed themselves to the pursuit of hounding “the undesirables amongst us” back into the shadows, and sweeping them under the rug…
…It is all fine and wonderful that you wish to focus primarily on youth rights…and I would even agree, that we have a deficit in that sort of openly expressed mindset here…There is, however, a glaring issue which is being ignored by those who want everybody here to be sanitized and “pre-approved” in their expression…
Youth rights are vital and important…but there are more issues concerning us, than simply youth rights. Our own social struggles and maintaining our own sense of community and support, are every bit as vital and important, to a great many of the people that flock to BoyChat and consistently return here.
Everything here may not be flattering and pretty…and you know what?…I get embarrassed by BoyChat sometimes, given my own connection with this place, and how some people chronically behave here in foul [sometimes nasty and cruel] ways…But I refuse to blame the people who are forced to live in an insane world of shit, for deriving a little bit of pleasure and sanctuary by posting YouTube links here, or ranting their frustrations here, or sharing their philosophies on our sexuality, or taking a bit of pride in who they are, or…or…or…or expressing what has already been said here, a quazillion times previously…Sometimes, it [the community in general] even comes off way too juvenile for my mood at the moment…
BoyChat has warts…Yes, that is true…But it serves a unique purpose, centered around the needs of BoyLovers. BoyChat is not meant for general public consumption. Just because of this fact, it does not mean that BoyChat should go away or cease being what it is…If so, what then?…send all of us back into the dark net, to do whatever it is isolated and unaccountable people like us with little hope are inclined to do, when we think nobody is watching?
Whether people here are prepared to put their own needs back into the closet and pursue youth rights, or not…we should be pleased that BoyChat exists, even if only as a pressure valve….and as a focal point, attracting people who might evolve towards some focused agenda in our favor [and that of youth, children and others].
Given the harsh extremes we live under…we are bound to find an echo of those extremes, reflected in our own responses to them.
For many of us…and I include myself in this…BoyChat has always been a personal endeavor…and about finding myself and finding a meaning in my own life, as a BoyLover. It has been about focusing on BoyLovers and our unique personal and social issues…not about signing up to champion every possible angle, in fighting the obstacles standing in the way of our liberated sex lives…I have enough knowledge and trust, in the fact that there are others of us out there doing that already.
We should not pretend that the focus of BoyChat and that of youth rights, are in conflict…These two camps [and “campaigns”] overlap…but they still focus on very important groups and their issues.
Just because some want to focus only on the one, does not mean that it is okay to neglect the other…And that goes both ways…Our needs and struggles as BoyLovers do not cease to be, just because some people don’t want to acknowledge them…or wish they were out of sight.
I just want to close this with one last thought…
…The BoyLove, Girl-Love, Minor Attraction, Youth Attraction, whatever you want to call it…these communities have a colossal amount of inner work and construction to be done, in order to even be viable as something which can interact with liberated youth rights…
…If those of you who are turned off by this process, do not even want to allow this often messy process to commence and sort itself out…then there is honestly no free world where youth can choose their sexual companions [which would include people like us], to be hoped for.
…After being shunted off into the shadows, as usual…we will remain every bit as disorganized and “uncultured”…likely even worse off, for the continued isolation…And what then?…A thriving and healthy youth rights movement, that openly wants nothing to do with us, because nothing has changed for the better in our own communities?
…Maybe then, you can start to focus on the true work and attention that minor attracted communities sorely need…while some counter movement, gets to the undertaking of eroding the youth rights advancements you’ve achieved.
I wonder…if the two [or, multiple, honestly] groups ever have any real chance, of meeting in a time and place of mutual social equality, given the manner in which at least one will remain severely shackled and stunted.
I think…those of you who focus primarily on youth rights are doing great work…But I also know from experience, that a lot of you are not seeing the larger picture.
No…Life is not all about sex, and social dynamics can skew the conversation towards sex, because sex is forbidden…and we often focus on those things, which are missing in our lives…
…You are correct, if you say that it sets us up to be seen, unintentionally, as “obsessed with sex”…And most outsiders don’t understand, everything which pushed us into this corner…
…But even you have acknowledged, have you not, that without sexual liberation, youth rights [as well as our own rights] do not sincerely exist?
Getting frustrated because everybody else around BoyChat is not in the same place you are emotionally, psychologically and strategically, will only serve to isolate yourself and degrade the atmosphere.
I implore people [including outside onlookers] to understand BoyChat fills a real need, for real people who don’t have a lot of alternatives. There is substantial utility in what happens [there]…and unless there is something happening causing demonstrable and concrete injury, then people should let it be.
I was simply offering some thoughts from a different viewpoint, and really don’t have intent of getting into a long exchange with anyone.
“In a witchhunt situation, the better solution out might be to make the argument that there are no witches, or that there is a little of the witch in all humans, rather than start a “pedophile and proud” movement.”
I shall reflect on this…as there is wisdom in it…Though I’d hesitate to suggest that we are all in a “pedophile and proud” movement…For some of us, it’s just an “I’m human, too” movement.
“For example, on more than one occasion, people here have tossed out definitions of comrade “boylovers” that could include John Wayne Gacy.”
Badly phrased posts, or even just posts that lack entirely comprehensive acknowledgement of every single scenario imaginable, are pretty common on the internet. Are you sure you are not being a bit unfair, reading things into posts which were never even thought of, let alone meant, by the original poster? Those kinds of posts require a bit of lenient common sense…Which, sadly, some around here are very stingy with.
In addition…it is entirely possible [and intellectually sound], to acknowledge that some people who do heinous things are biologically BoyLovers…Meaning, they have the physical attractions and inclinations, of so many of the rest of us here. And at the same time, it is entirely possible to condemn the heinous act.
It is further possible, for someone with understanding of what this existence is like and empathy for others living it…to make an allowance for all that person has previously been put through…not absolve them of responsibility for their actions…but acknowledge that things beyond their control really screwed up their lives, and they eventually snapped…They mentally broke under their circumstances…Where as, if they were like most people…it is much less likely they would have.
…If he had had a solid support structure…conceivably, even John Wayne Gacy could have been a wonderful BoyLover…
…unless we presume that he naturally got off on torturing, raping and murdering…and that was his thing…And now that I think on it, I do believe that is part of what he became…But was it always that way, with him? Could there have been a substantive intervention? Is it not worth considering, that in a different setting he might have been a credit to the world, having not done what he did, but something entirely different and good?
A lot of people we might otherwise recognize as BoyLovers, do go astray…and they have many pressures, which push them astray.
I myself do not believe we are entirely justified, in throwing these people to the wolves and fully disowning them, when so much about this world has failed them.
Some BoyLovers have done extremely messed up things…The big question here is, does that mean they lose their status as a BoyLover?
Now…if, as I suspect…you are of the mind to treat being a BoyLover, as being defined by a relationship ideal…then I can certainly understand, where what you accept is much more narrow in scope.
For the record…I look upon BoyLove in this latter sense…but a lot of people are uncomfortable with such a distinction, and think it alienates people who are biologically predisposed to be like us [which some think is the definition of who we are]. I cant entirely disagree with the discomfort, over such a complicated and disputed question…but I can agree, that the ultimate actions for which Gacy will forever be known, should not be seen as “part of being a BoyLover”…and that observation can be extended, to the actions of various people…not just Gacy.
Two last things…
…I don’t see how what I [or people like me] have done, has come at any expense to boys. On the contrary…I think fighting to infuse some degree of honesty and level headedness into the world, maybe even helping to support the mental stability of others who are like me, can only act to help the fate of boys in this world.
Last…Of course, we don’t have millions of people here at BoyChat…How could we?…But this is one place where a community has flocked, for well in excess of a decade and a half…If you want to point out that it is not an enormous group, you are free too. It is still a community, which has meant a great deal to a lot of us who have been here.
Date: December 22, 2013
…You do apply ethical and behavioral standards, to the actual definition of BoyLover…
I certainly would not imply that is wrong…as I think it is common sense, when you take on such relationships, you assume certain responsibilities…and you need to treat other people right.
While I am not one of them…I can say, there are some people who very strongly object, to defining a BoyLover in terms of ethical responsibilities…or standards of conduct.
I can understand this on one hand…because we can easily get into splitting fine hairs, with this…And it could alienate others, who maybe aren’t living the best of lives…but maybe they just haven’t found themselves yet, come to terms and settled down yet…Maybe, they’ve never even conceived, things could be different from how they’ve been told they are…because they’ve never been exposed to anything else?…Is it fair to disqualify, those who have never had the epiphany?
…I also think there is a danger in disowning people like us, who do bad things…Because I believe their bad actions, are a symptom of the bad circumstances we are forced to live under. We should not represent ourselves, as being above this reality of life…Instead, we should be angry about it…and fighting to change things, because of it.
There is also the question, of what exactly is “bad behavior”…which is fairly easy to point out, with Gacy…but often more ambiguous and nuanced in the details, when considering a more common situation…
I am the last person here, who is going to claim a brief sex fling, an act of prostitution, or a one night stand between a man and a boy is at all ideal, or to be sought after…I would not even call it responsible…But humans being humans, and every experience being its own…even if it is based primarily in lust…I cannot stand in judgment, dictating that a respectful sexual encounter between a man and a boy, which has no possibility of going anywhere, and maybe even is an act of prostitution, was not the act of a genuine BoyLover.
…In fact, I find myself being more empathetic, due to the circumstances which make that sort of thing far more likely, than an attempt at a full blown relationship [which is almost guaranteed disaster].
In adapting to the environment around us…people seek what they need, in manners based strongly on how they are treated and whatever is available…If it is a bad environment, then options and outcomes are often not so good…And that really is not the fault of the individual.
I think…the focus should always be on changing the environment, to encourage better choices…while not forgetting that humans are still humans, and they have needs…one of the most primal, being sexual intimacy. If such a thing is denied, outright…we only have bad [or less optimal] outcomes, to expect…And some of those outcomes, are genuine social problems.