“The Ultimate Argument Against Pedophilia”?…


Date: December 11, 2017

Forgive that this post is somewhat wordy…but, I get on a roll…and this is what sometimes comes of it.

01) The Ultimate Argument Against Amos Yee


“This is the ultimate argument against Amos Yee’s stance on Pedophilia. Why no one invoked it is beyond me, really.”

He titles his video “The Ultimate Argument Against Amos Yee”, but refers to this as “The Ultimate Argument Against Pedophilia” early in the video…which is why I am taking the later, for this posts name sake. It should be recognized, however, that the real world manifestations of pedophilia in this world, and Amos Yee’s thoughts on pedophilia, are very much their own things.

It’s ultra easy to rip into a few of the things Amos Yee has stated.

Pedophilia as a living phenomena, however, is way too nuanced to be shackled to the poor video Amos Yee created…which rumor has it, has been deleted by YouTube.

For those unaware…Amos Yee is a YouTuber in the atheist skeptic community…He is from Singapore…and became famous for being jailed [twice] for his videos insulting religion. He fled his home country, came to the U.S. and won asylum here. He may have expressed similar opinions on pedophilia, prior…I don’t remember…but he really hit the topic hard, and essentially, exclusively, upon returning to his YouTube activities.

Some of his statements were, frankly, egregious…Not something [nor the demeanor] I would expect coming from anyone who genuinely cares about children, youth, pedophiles or MAPs of any type…It came off flippant and juvenile.

I’ve never made any personal response to all of this…and was honestly expecting Amos to confess his trolling…or, worse…seduce a lot of MAPs into uniting around him, and then turn on them to humiliate the MAP community.

Maybe I am wrong…but I’ve not had an especially good feeling about what he’s doing…or how he’s going about it.

To the video substance:

He claims there is no counterargument to what he is about to say…Let’s see…

Everything is paraphrased.

“Pedophilia makes no sense in concept, because by definition, it is the attraction to prepubescent children…Because the whole point of having sex, is to reproduce.”

This is an extremely disappointing start, as I was expecting something that would actually push my intellect…especially out of an “ultimate” refutation of pedophilia.

Sex has a very wide range of personal and social effects, both positive and necessary for maximized well functioning.

Most people having sex, are not trying to have a baby…They’re attaining the benefits of sexual activity.

Most instances of sex do not result in pregnancy…and a vast many people having regular sex, act to prevent a pregnancy from happening.

Reproduction, is one of the side benefits [for the species], in having sex.

You’re killing yourself right out the gate, if you believe sex is only for reproduction.

“The tertiary purpose of sex, is for bonding and pleasure.”

Even if that were true, it does nothing to dismiss the real world benefits of sexual relations…These things exist, and are their own natural good…For many people, this is the meaning, in the pursuit of sex…and it is not an invalid meaning…I would argue, it’s every bit as important, if not more so, than making babies…Because it maintains a world of intimacy and bonding, leaning towards a peaceful and tender environment in which to bring and raise newborns.

People place so much emphasis on the aspect of making babies…But, seriously…If we were savage, brutal creatures who knew no love and tenderness…we likely would have driven ourselves into extinction, long before now…leaving nobody of our species left, to make babies.

If we even want new babies [because, let’s face it…we cannot all keep expanding our numbers forever]…we need a decent, supportive world to bring them into.

…I think I can already see where this is going…”Children cannot reproduce, thus have no legitimate place in sexual relations”?…

“A pedophile could never even fulfill the secondary [bonding, etc.] purpose.”

Whoa!…That’s pulling some heavy duty propaganda, out of one’s own behind.

A pedophile can never bond with a child, within the context of a sexual relationship?…

…I’d love to see the studies on that…to be able to sift through them.

We already know, there are cases where the child and pedophile bond…often quite deeply, with each other.

The proper observation is to say that this type of bonding is deeply stigmatized on a social level, and positive examples of this bonding are virtually never acknowledged in a public or research manner.

“The children are prepubescent, and have not gone through puberty…There’s not even a reason to have sex with a child.”

…And the implication is that they are incapable of realizing the benefits of sexuality, and this type of bonding?…

…Hogwash!

That is an expression of ageism.

This guys “ultimate argument” has plummeted, hyper fast.

…He might as well just forfeit, at this point…

“Done! That’s it. There’s not even a point to it, and that’s the end of that.”

I’m glad he has just made this proclamation…because I don’t want to have to sift through another seven and a half minutes of this shortsighted ramble…[Why do people make their YouTube videos so blasted long, when they don’t have to?…They just blab on, long after they’ve stated their points…and it makes these kinds of responses, an excessive chore.]

…And he’s already been thoroughly trounced…with amazingly little effort.

See…this is a large part of the problem…

…People have been telling themselves and others these things about sex, reasserting them in their particular biased ways…for such a large era of time, that few people even see sex for what it is…few people recognize the many diverse, natural reasons behind sex.

…It’s been mentally imprisoned in the status of “evil” for so long…that an objective and rational observation of sexual manifestation amongst humans, is almost criminal in the minds of some people.

It’s sad…because there are so many problems in this world, which did not exist…but they’ve come into being, because of the compounding effects of ignorance, paranoia and fear.

In this world…you either run rampant, and fight for the team that creates greater suffering in this world…

…or you temper and orientate yourself, to fight for the team which alleviates suffering in this world.

I know which team I am on…

…Problem is…most people don’t realize they are on the wrong team.

They think they are on the good team…But they’ve never panned back from where they presently stand, to take a wider scope examination of the effects of what they do.

They don’t understand the horrible destruction and suffering they are causing…They don’t understand, how they are damaging this world and the people in it.

“Pedophilia is illogical, and doesn’t make any sense at all.”

This is a decent summary, of the claims made…and it is bunk, on it’s face…Anyone who studies child adult sexual relations, who has the courage to be honest, knows this.

I’ll leave any further commentary, for anyone who cares to watch through the rest of this video.

…Given it’s title…this has proven to be a horrible disappointment.

All these promises…but when is someone going to come about, who actually drops a substantive argument that invalidates MAPs?

…I’ve never seen it…And this video changes nothing…

…Just a guy, who’s impressing himself with soft “facts” and opinion.


One more…

“There is no setting, in which it is reasonable to have sex with a child.”

Is this true?…

Tell that to the different human cultures that have existed, throughout time.

I’m not implying every example has been either optimal or sound…But there is a very real, demonstrable, cultural context to this issue.

Even just the very concept of “childhood”, where it exists and ends, is a fluid one.

In this modern age…diverse cultures assign different responsibilities and privileges to humans of the same, young age. There is objectively little different between the biological child humans…Yet, the cultures look upon them different as individual entities.

This is why we can see twelve year old boys being drafted into the military, and sent off to war [their own slaughter] in some places…whereas other cultures wont even let them enter the work force in any meaningful manner, until they reach the age of eighteen…even then, strongly pushing for their further schooling and social sheltering, until they are somewhere deep into their twenties…or thirties.

My point is not to argue the merits or pitfalls of either extreme…It’s to establish that “normal” hinges on whatever the majority population you live in believes it is…and is comfortable with.

Over the past few hundred years…the French once accepted it as normal, for boys to have sex with their own mothers…as a practical way of dealing with a males sexuality [and a mothers needs, when her husband had taken on a mistress], in the years before he would become married.

I even have vague recollection of seeing art, depicting this…It was part of the culture.

As to the contention being made…I would say, this culture I have found myself living in has been socially constructed so narrow and unforgiving…that it has squeezed out all rational definitions of “reasonable”, that might leave a place for this type of intimacy.

…Did that last sentence make sense?

It’s not that such a thing is absolutely unreasonable…nor even particularly unreasonable…

…It’s that some people are trying to push it out of the realm of “reasonable”…

…Yet, simply making the assertion, does not make it so.

To anyone who does not understand cultural diversity of this sort…go look up the research project, “Growing Up Sexually”…It’s also linked on the EQF Community links page [via the Links Hub]…

Again…if you lack a broader, historical perspective on this…then you really don’t understand it…And whatever you have to say in regards to this issue, will likely be uninformed and ignorant.

As to the actual challenge, of identifying a circumstance where sex with a child would make sense…

…I think this should get an answer.

I would like to point out a lesser realized fact, about sex offender registries…and that fact is, that a massive percentage of those included, are themselves children, adolescents and teens.

…It’s something in the range of forty percent [or higher]…Of course, it’s going to flux with different, more localized lists…but when you combine everything together [think the federal sex offender register]…you find that nearly half of the people getting put onto it, are kids and children.

Some of these cases are legitimate, violent rape…others are consensual sex, that was illegal to have…

I don’t claim all these children, adolescents and teens were perfect angels…But it is glaringly clear, they had a strong enough drive to seek out sex, that they actively pursued it in the real world…entirely free from the demands of an adult.

These are kids who demonstrably used their own agency, to have a sexual experience with another person.

For those who had consensual relations, they’re not sincerely predators…they’re just kids enjoying each other, who got netted up by a cruel social system…

…But for those who went violent…I’ve always questioned why, there would ever be a sexually violent child…

Based on what I’ve seen over the years…I’ve been left with the conclusion, that the sexually violent child is produced by mainly two things…One being a lack of guided sexual and social acclimation…The second, being a deeply suppressed sex drive, with no outlet allowed for it.

I realize this might sound self serving, on some level…But there have been times in my life, where I’ve read or watched a news report about some young kid [sometimes really young]…who raped, brutalized, sometimes even murdered another person [adult or child]…and sex was somehow involved in the brutality…And the kid [yes, I am talking about boys] is in custody, facing a hellacious future…his life is over…

…I shake my head, and think to myself…what if?…

…You know, just what if…society had the foresight, to tolerate and put together us “sexual weirdoes”…be we child, adolescent, teens or adults…to come together in peace, and fulfill our needs with each other?

What if…that kid who murdered his own mother, and tried to rape her corpse [clearly, a matter of pent up sexual frustration and energy], had had someone like myself as a neighbor…and instead of being sexually angry and hyper…he was too busy getting sucked off by his neighbor, and too mellow in the aftermath, to even get angry or violent?

…What could have been avoided…if he were sexually fulfilled and happy for it?

I often think to myself, as a pedophile…looking at these kids, setting in custody…”Jesus!…I would have just about given my left arm, to have been able to give you whatever sexual pleasures you wanted…There is no reason in this world, for any boy to resort to these kinds of things!”

…People like me, are a living sexual outlet, for these kinds of kids…

…and vise versa, honestly.

You think about all the cases out there, where maybe a pedophile did do something horrible…And you know, this was completely unnecessary…If only he’d had a kid that wanted to be there…If he were accustomed to being around and with children…maybe, the rare case of the isolated pedophile would not have gone so wrong…

…Maybe, there would be more people alive…less people raped…less people who didn’t want to be, touched…

There is a practical, and absolutely serious, argument and humane reason to allow all people who have sexual needs, to have a genuine outlet for them…People who are sexually happy and satisfied, are statistically much less violent…making for a far safer, less violent culture.

In my opinion…whether we are talking children, adolescents, teens…pedophiles, hebephiles or ephebophiles…the natural counterpart for each group, has always been out there…

…But most of us have spent our lives isolated from each other, because of the speech, thought and education Nazis within our cultures…who are hell bent on keeping us all as ill informed, alienated and incapable as they possibly can.

This has always been a recipe, for absolute disaster…People who are isolated and unsatisfied, realizing what unjust aggressions society has visited upon them all of their lives, and feeling trapped by it all, tend to get angry and do stupid things.

Not everybody channels their frustrations at the world into something benign, like blogging.

…And this is where we get into the sticky circumstances, where society creates and maintains a social order, which guarantees more people [children included] will be raped, brutalized and murdered.

Creating and maintaining scapegoated outcasts, or otherwise alienated groups, is never a sound social policy.

It simply destroys individual people, and comes back around to eat society, itself.

There is an old saying, which used to come up during complaints over unruly young males…”Boys will be boys”…

There is a ton of wisdom in this phrase…because the people saying it understood, that sometimes you need to stay hands off, and allow boys to be boys…because what they are getting on about, is a necessary part of their natural being…It’s best to let it play out, because if you interfere with it…you’re just causing more problems, than you could ever hope to solve…At most, you can guide it in a more safe, productive direction…

The wisest people understand…that there comes a point where you necessarily have to let humans be human…and you cannot micro manage everything, to the point of stripping people of their very humanity…

…When we get to this point in society, as has been the case for children, adolescents, teens, pedophiles, hebephiles and ephebophiles, where you are imprisoned in a culture of constant threat, brainwashing and deprivation…this is where the true root of danger exists.

There will always be a much clearer, more direct link between the Jessica Lundsford’s, Jacob Wetterling’s and Amber Hagerman’s of this world, and how society inflicts total deprivation and dehumanization upon pedophiles…than there will ever be between those types of cases, and a social openness to sexual education, sexual tolerance, sexual respect and sexual expression.

The sexual policies and laws we have today, are an utter failure…and an utterly tragic, embarrassing disgrace.

Based on the devastation they cause…every humane person, should be interested in seriously considering and fighting for alternate options…even if only for societies self serving better interests and safety.

Amos Yee’s controversial video, uploaded on Minds

6 thoughts on ““The Ultimate Argument Against Pedophilia”?…

  1. feinmann0

    When you see claims such as: “The Ultimate Argument”, “The Definitive Story”, “The Authoritative Version”, you just know somehow that the author is likely to be either narcissistic, egotistic, deluded, immature, or all these things.

    BASSFZz, if that is his alias or moniker, is no different to the ‘others’ Stateside who express their opinions in isolation or who have debated (recently) with Amos Yee directly on the topic of paedophilia. All appear to have been raised on a narrow diet of bigotry and hate fueled by discriminatory disinformation, and yet here they are quite content to advertise their ignorance by perpetuating the disinformation via their YouTube echo-chambers.

    As an aside, I cannot fathom why Amos chose America to live following his flight from Singapore – frying pan straight into the fire would be my take on his decision. Any genuine intention to change the status quo for paedophiles globally must soon evaporate once the realisation of just how much danger he is exposing himself to in the land of intolerance and vigilantism sinks in.

    Reply
    1. eqfoundation Post author

      I don’t know if Amos has much of a plan in front of him…He just seems to be striking off in some direction, and not worrying about it.

      He seems to be in a mess, right now…because he’s got no place to go, but is being kicked out of the place he’s currently living [presumably on the home owners charity].

      I’d have advised him to settle and establish himself, and his financial stability, before wandering into this territory.

      It makes no sense for him to be doing what he is doing…And, yes…The group of people he chooses to “debate” with, and his style of “debate”, are not productive.

      About the only natural positive I see in him, here…is that he has a funny sort of charisma…which can be a tad bit disarming…with some people, anyway.

      The very first video of his on this topic [which was likely deleted by YouTube], had him giving his blessing to adult men, anally penetrating infants with their penis in “child porn”…and “if the child didn’t cry, and their anus got wrecked, that’s their problem”…

      It’s insane stuff like that, which has left me unwilling to feature his media…He backed away from that, and disavowed it [rather quick and flippantly]…but, still…Nobody who cared about children, teens and MAPs would say that.

      He privately floated a message to me, asking me if I wanted to chat…Not sure if he meant text, or on camera…I declined…

      …Actually…I left it hanging, without response.

      Reply
      1. eqfoundation Post author

        Possibly…
        It may not be obvious, but I’ve been kind of down in a funk, the last week or so…I’ve done more writing than usual, but my posts are way down…

        …That offer came at about two or three in the morning, and I wasn’t up to it.

  2. Yure

    The argument against is feeble and one-sided.
    If the purpose of sex is to reproduce, the same ultimate argument can be used against homosexuals. It also ignores that sex is done as recreation nowadays, with the growing of contraceptive techniques.
    Anecdotal evidence shows that the aspect of bonding can happen in an adult-child relationship, sexual or not, so the argument of tertiary purpose is gratuitous. He is assuming it doesn’t happen, without doing research.
    He doesn’t know many pedophiles either. Or maybe he does, but doesn’t know they are pedophiles. If he were to know us, he would see that it’s possible for a pedophile to form a bound with a child in a non-sexual manner. Why would it be different in a sexual context, if such was legal? A lot of pedophiles refrain from doing sexual activities with children exactly because they don’t want to ruin that bound, by risking a legal action to violently break a relationships that is valued by the child. If he doesn’t know pedophiles and is talking about pedophiles, he is bound to recite prejudice.
    Prepubescence doesn’t equal asexuality. I have feelings for minors since age 5. Even anti-contacts can agree that children have sexual fantasies, the only difference is that they don’t know those fantasies are sexual. Why do babies masturbate? If you leave a baby boy laying in his crib, naked, for five minutes, he will likely touch himself. And will do that for several minutes if left alone. Why is he doing that, if not because it feels good? Difference is that adults know why. The point of sex, in the current society, a society that cares less about reproduction than pleasure, is mutual pleasure. If a child can feel pleasure, it’s not pointless.
    Before 2009, an adult-child relationship wouldn’t be imediately prosecuted by law in Brazil. Several indiginous tribes don’t mind the idea of participating in sexual activities with children. I think that he is taking sex in the strict sense of penetration, only then it would make sense to say that it’s not acceptable, if the child is prepubescent. But sexual activity in general, within the boundaries of health and respect, isn’t harmful or painful. Why would it be unacceptable worldwide? He is seeing things through the eyes of his culture and universalizing it. So, it’s another gratuitous argument, done without enough research.
    I recommend him the following texts, so he can maybe think of better arguments. Can’t fight without knowing the enemy, right?
    Frank van Ree’s “Abuse By Definition? The Taboo as Excuse”.
    C. M. Rubin’s “Alice – True of Not True?”
    Theo Sandfort’s “Boys on Their Contacts With Men: a Study of Sexually Expressed Friendships”.
    Sandfort/Rademakers’ “Childhood Sexuality: Normal Sexual Behavior and Development”.
    T. Rivas’ “Circular Arguments and Category Errors in the Rejection of Voluntary Intimate Relationships Between Adults and Children”.
    Bruce Rind’s “Gay and Bisexual Adolescent Boys’ Sexual Experiences With Men: An Empirical Examination of Psychological Correlates in a Nonclinical Sample”.
    Jenny Woolf’s “Lewis Carroll’s Shifting Reputation”.
    Sandfort/Brongersma/Naerssen’s “Male Intergenerational Intimacy” (by the way, Hikari has this book).
    Tom O’Carroll’s “Paedophilia: the Radical Case”.
    T. Rivas’ “Positive Memories: Cases of Positive Memories of Erotic and Platonic Relationships and Contacts of Children With Adults as Seen From The Perspective of The Former Minor”.
    Terry Leahy’s “Sex and The Age of Consent: The Ethical Issues”.
    There’s so much research that he could have done. But he simply resorted in adopting a “simple” solution. I bet that those youtubers who debated Yee thought about those arguments, but discarded them. They are crippled, shallow and useless.

    Reply
    1. eqfoundation Post author

      “Prepubescence doesn’t equal asexuality.”

      Amen! I have no recollections, of being anything other than a sexual being There was no asexual era in my life, to my knowledge.

      And, yes…

      …The facts and evidence absolutely thrashes the naysayers, out there.

      Reply

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