Het Capitool over pedofilie (1987)…


ma_tv
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Date: July 31, 2018

01) Het Capitool over pedofilie (1987)


“Uitzending met als gasten
– Edward Brongersma (ex-senator PvdA)
– Yvonne Keuls (schrijfster)
– Theo Sandfort (psycholoog)
– Marjan Wijers (Kindertelefoon)

Gespreksleider: Pieter de Vink”

I cannot understand any of this…But I had to share this, anyway…

…The manner and personal composure of this dialogue, is just wonderful…It’s almost tranquil…

…And to think…they’re discussing pedophilia…and nobody is spazzing out…

This is a good example, of how dialogues on pedophilia should be.

My goodness!…They even smile in the direction of Dr. Brongersma…

…Wonderful!

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3 thoughts on “Het Capitool over pedofilie (1987)…

  1. feinmann0

    A translation of small amount of dialogue from the discussion (via brongersma.info/Het_Capitool_over_pedofilie)

    [Yvonne Keuls (writer):] I think you really do as soon as there are abuses that you have to make public. And I think exactly, what happens when you report abuses, that authorities – including aid agencies – jump forward to prevent that, because if that then becomes public you often have to do something about that and people often do not know advice and then it is often the easiest to deny it or to do nothing with it. The one who has had the courage to talk about it or the person who wants to make it public is sometimes ridiculed. […]

    [Edward Brongersma (ex-senator PvdA):] There is a kind of fear of sexuality and lust, that has risen so strongly in the last century, and that has led to a kind of elimination of this subject from the upbringing and that I believe is highly fatal and also endangers the children much more. […]

    [Interviewer:] And may they [idle] with adults, Mr. Sandfort? […]

    [Theo Sandfort (psychologist):] In principle, I am not prepared to decide whether they should or should not. What I know – in my research is that there are just children who have sexual contacts with adults – in addition to a lot of abuse, of course, I will certainly not deny – but that there are children who have sexual contacts with adults, sometimes on their own initiative, sometimes on the initiative of the adult, which they experience as enjoyable, which they say take part voluntarily afterwards. So those contacts are there. And if we are going to say very loudly it is not allowed then I think we are just creating a new problem for those people.

    [Marjan Wijers (Kindertelefoon)] I think you can not say in advance that is harmful. Damage depends on a number of other factors that depend on the degree of freedom a child felt to say no. That is incredibly important. You also see from research that the more the person who abuses is perceived as more powerful, the child is damaged or what you want to call it. That is even more important – that power difference, that degree – as the kind of abuse itself.

    [Sandfort:] It’s not so much about the power difference, but about how that parent [older?] deals with the difference in power.

    [Wijers:] Yes, but that power difference also determines whether the child feels the freedom to say no or not. If the child feels free to say no, then it is a completely different story than when it does not feel that freedom.

    [Brongersma:] I am glad you are using that terminology of freedom because it is all about what the child feels. […]

    [Wijers:] In fact you can of course set a very general limit that also applies to adults; when it comes to sexuality of adults, we also make the distinction between sexuality, sex, pleasure and rape; these are two different categories, violence. This also applies to children. And violence must always be punishable.

    source: TV program The Capitol; Guests: Edward Brongersma (ex-senator PvdA), Yvonne Keuls (writer), Theo Sandfort (psychologist), Marjan Wijers (Kindertelefoon); Discussion leader: Pieter de Vink

    Reply
    1. eqfoundation Post author

      Great! Thank you!

      In the states, we had to be subjected to this insanity, only a few years later.

      It’s always been a struggle in “the land of the free”…to take this discussion out of the hands of hysterical people, who only want to talk over you, and ascribe the worst motives possible to you…

      It’s sad and pathetic…that it’s almost shocking, to even see people have calm, rational and honest discussion on adult minor/child sexual relations.

      We don’t get real discussions of this nature, in the USA…We just get lots of loud, obnoxious, self appointed tyrants, who are there to derail the dialogue [and the public’s potential for understanding the issues].

      It’s a circus, freak show…For the most part…we have only the poorest quality of representation, and people making the loudest noise, out there…Actual professionals who know what they’re talking about, wont touch that scene.

      Reply
      1. feinmann0

        Yes, the West has discarded an irreplaceable set of values and behaviours that once marked it out as civilised … such as: grace, respect, eloquence, politeness, empathy, knowledge, loyalty. The Het Capitool discussion exemplifies how things once were 30 plus years ago, what has been lost, and which is of use only to social historians today.

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