Category Archives: BoyChat Response

How I Went to School…

Date: January 19, 2016

01) How I Went to School…

Back in October of 2016, I finally did something I’d been meaning to do for at least a year…probably two, or three.

How I Went to School: Accelerated Christian Education [ACE]…

This was never going to be a project based around sour grapes…In fact when I stumbled across ACE videos on YouTube, I was legitimately excited about it…because I could finally share something about myself with other people, that is often confusing to explain…because so relatively few people share this experience with me.

I was actually having fun making that post…because I could vouch for a lot of the things other people were saying about ACE…And it was bringing back a lot of memories…Most of them are not especially bad.

The problem with these kinds of schools, is that everything is measured against the bible…Any contradiction is defaulted to the bible’s narrative. Because they are private schools…they get away with this.

It’s astonishing…but true. The quality and integrity of your K-12 schooling, can have severe differences…And relatively few people seem to think there is anything wrong with that.

…Of course…when you go through roughly two decades of this…graduate, and have to go function in the world…it does eventually sink in, that you literally have to be deprogrammed…re-oriented…re-educated.

…Going to college presented a culture shock to me…Because I had so little experience learning and functioning in that kind of setting and structure.

…And, I mean…electives were almost non-existent…Nothing practical was offered, in the way of life skills…It was sad…About the only thing I would say these schools have a leg up on [aka an advantage], is preparing children to become missionaries, or have careers in the church.

They’re often not well funded…Sometimes the people running them are questionable…But I guarantee you, any kid who attends one will forget more about the bible, than your average person will ever know.

…And after spending all that time and years with your nose buried in the bible…you come out and realize, it’s not much of a useful thing…There’s all sorts of other things, time would be better spent on.

I sometimes think about the stuff I wanted to do [like learn to play the saxophone]…but was forced out of, because with everything else going on, I was overwhelmed…I couldn’t keep up with it…Me memorizing passages from the bible, was more important to them, than my development of a personally enriching musical skill…a skill which was important to me, on a personal level.

…Cant say as I much care about quoting bible verses today…But I’d love to play the sax in a band…That might actually be a beneficial skill, if I had it today.

…Heck…I could have been Kenny G…or something.

A bitter irony…is that it was the school, itself, that was contracting a music instructor to come in, and teach those of us interested [there was only three of us]…But they pulled me out, and wouldn’t let me continue [unlike the others].

I’ve always been creatively and musically inclined…Not well developed, but leaning in that direction…So, it has remained a sore spot of contention, given all the time we kids were forced to spend doing an insane amount of bible stuff.

In the years since…I’ve invested in a few musical instruments…but neglected to learn how to play them, in any meaningful way…Much to my personal shame.

As to that test:

We covered dinosaurs, too…And I know, something similar to that test was likely given to me…somewhere along the line.

Sometimes It’s surprising to look back, and realize how they tried to intertwine our education, with molding us into being world missionaries…Because you don’t even think about that, when you’re experiencing it [maybe later, but not early on]…That’s just how you are raised, to believe the world is…You don’t know anything different…and you lack the knowledge and skills to refute it.

My honest opinion, as someone who went through twelve years of it…is that schools like those that use ACE, should not be allowed to teach science…or social studies [as in government and history]…

…Granted, they don’t actually teach science…They teach a corrupted hybrid, of science submissive to religion…It’s not a real science education.

…Social studies is heavily propagandist…Though I’m sure many will argue, it is everywhere.

All the subjects that should be protected from turning them into a de facto extra bible study, are not protected at all…And there are way too many bible studies, mandatory and elective.

My experience with the church [and it’s ACE schools], remains one of the most irrational, bewildering experiences of my life.

…You escape from that kind of setting…and people come to scorn you, for your developed sense of honesty.

If nothing else…it’s been a major personal education, in social B.S.

Nothing has to be especially true, or even possess integrity…but it will fly, so long as enough people vouch for it, under the auspices of “looking out for the children’s better interests”.

That’s one of the major, fundamental rules of culture, right there.

Some seven and eight year old boys have (and enjoy) oral sex…


Date: September 26, 2016

01) enjoyment of oral sex and age of the boys

“Some seven and eight year old boys have (and enjoy) oral sex. One proof for that is the result of the following study were about 560 homo- and bisexual young men were asked about their first sexual experiences:

Kubicek et al. (2010): In the Dark: Young Men’s Stories of Sexual Initiation in the Absence of Relevant Sexual Health Information. Health Education & Behavior, 37 (2) 243-263.

“Many of the respondents reported that their growing awareness of their sexuality led them to explore the possibilities at a young age. It was not unusual for young men to describe early sexual experiences such as mutual masturbation, oral sex, and “grinding” at the age of 7 or 8.”

Some other studies show that often such early sexual experiences are enjoyed very much.”

BoyChat continues to astonish me…

…because of it’s continued relevance, in educating people.

When I first arrived, back in 98…I could have easily been categorized as “Virtuous Pedophile Lite”…I didn’t see this orientation as anything especially bad…but I also did not see a reason, or social path forward, in successfully defending it.

My time [with BoyChat] has been a life changing experience…The education I have received, numerous times over, has led me to the understanding…that islands of honest examination surrounding our sexuality, do exist.

While I still resist demanding that our sexual inclinations be fully legalized…I have come to staunchly demand, that society quit treating this knowledge, as though it were trash to be discarded.

Thank you, Filip30. I appreciate what you do…just as I’ve appreciated what so many others [on BoyChat] have done.

“Are there any requirements to enjoy oral-sex as an 7 or 8 year old boy?

For example it is well documented that the pubertal development of boys shows big differences.

Or will in a future society without sexual taboos nearly all 7 and 8 year old boys have and enjoy oral sex?”

From what knowledge I have gathered during my lifetime…I think there are no mysterious answers to this…

…We are one of many species, with highly sensitive genitalia and a common trait to be physically close. While we don’t know why…sexual arousal tends to happen…a lot. Probably because we are biological animals, because of our chemistry…and because sex factually serves many social purposes…the natural response, is to go with your instinct.

I believe…the number one factor in a good outcome of these kinds of encounters and relationships…is feeling safe and secure in one’s personal choices.

Naturally…various things can interfere with that…But if there is no interference…it’s just a natural thing, left alone to happen.

It’s telling and instructive…just how often the memories turn out good…whenever people aren’t harshly judged or punished, for doing what comes naturally to them.

One of the things that’s most fascinated me about zoophilia…is it’s ability to demonstrably unlock sexual pleasure, for animals that don’t get to experience sexual stimulation on that level [orgasms, even], in their normal setting with other members of their species. And how some non-human animals have been known, to take to this behavior quite well…very enthusiastically, even.

The only reason I bring this up…is because I think there is a biological parallel going on here…And that some species of warm blooded animals [mammals], simply have a natural, inborn tendency towards sexual intimacy.

…It’s just automatically there, whether it’s being tapped into or not.


GirlChat: A bit of historical perspective…

Date: August 09, 2016

01) Merge with GC?

Free Spirits did give rise to Girl Chat, yes…And as I recall it, when they were surveying the general attitude of BC BLs over it, there was an overwhelmingly accepting tone [so long as they maintained responsibility of their own board].

I don’t know what has brought on this era of vitriol…But there once was a day, when some of us were proud of Free Spirits, for having given GLs a place.

While I’ve never honestly had any deep level of power or control, here…I have considered myself amongst the people, who helped GLs get their own board.

I’ve always been supportive of this [as well as general BL / GL empowerment], since my earliest days on BoyChat…That may come as news to a few people…but it certainly should not, as I’ve never changed my stance.

…It is part of our legacy, to help GLs…despite our differences, and despite whomever around here is trying to break that alliance.

Yes…to respond to something I meant to mention…I know about Common Ground…Why wouldn’t I?…I participated in the discussion prior to it’s formation…and I am all but positive, that it’s namesake was taken from a comment in one of my posts.

Things have changed a lot since then…BLs and GLs have been intermingling for years, including at dreaded places online like twitter…And we don’t have all of this manby pamby drama and tantrum throwing, like has been witnessed in this thread.

Any decent person learns how to rise above their differences, and see the humanity in others.

…Get a grip, people…

…An individual has arrived and made a suggestion…The sky is not falling, in a blazing flame…Someone has simply given us a starting point, for a discussion […oh, the horrors]. Anyone can shape the discussion, bringing it around to something more palatable…

…Some of the ways a few BLs have decided to respond in this thread, have just been embarrassing…entirely uncalled for…and the foundation of bad will.

We all know that short of some kind of LEO take down, BoyChat is not dissolving [and likely not GirlChat, either]…I don’t know what any of you find so personally threatening here…

…But your chosen responses have exposed way more about yourselves, than anything else.

The Taliban of BoyChat…

Date: July 25, 2016

01) Re: one good thing


…Please don’t let the unelected, unrequested, unnecessary and self chosen Taliban of BoyChat get you down.

A lot of us have cycled through the same thing, because of the endless onslaught…and witnessing what it’s done to this community, especially over the last decade…You have no idea, how many years I held back personal anger and disgust, over this very issue.

A mental exercise I enjoy:

Think of them as followers who are so enamored with us, that they honor us with alternate universe fan fiction…It’s fun!

Since meaningful pushback by the sane, balanced and honest people is so infrequent…it helps to assign the insane busybodies, who are endlessly going on about nothing and being nasty [in hopes it will drive people away], to a kind of ludicrous, mental waste bin…a category befitting of them, and their behavior.

As to Osama Bin Maker…

…The Birds of BoyChat have been singing an interesting tune, in recent past…The only questions being…Do they sing in harmony?…And do they sing true?…

…I honestly would have never suspected…Osama Bin Maker’s historical identity has been concealed quite zealously…all these many, many, many years, as they’ve habitually returned to stab the knife into this community’s back…nobody [or few people] being the wiser, as to who is doing this to us.

It’s quite the thing to ponder…because if true, Osama Bin Maker is a massive Judas, to a community which accepted and embraced him [I was here, when he arrived]…a community which was remarkably good to him.

…But Osama Bin Maker and I were never on close terms…I could never vouch for his character, below the surface of his public persona.

Those who fail the acid test:

One thing I have come to know and personally experience…

…is that finally discovering that you actually do have real skin in this game, is the true acid test of character…especially within communities like this, with our particular social circumstances.

Some people know why they stand and fight…while others retreat, conceal themselves, and become bitter, abusive fiends…who blame, and blame and blame…who sow the seeds which undermine a community.

…This happens with our home grown celebrities, just like any other member…Some people take a stand, only when it is easy…When things start getting complicated, is when their true colors come out…

…It’s been really sickening realizing, who all you have to watch your back being around…when they should have been part of the supporting foundation of this community.

…This community was far better to them, then they have been to it.

Most of us here, are still decent quality people of good nature…I at least take heart in knowing that much.

…And since I know the Furor of BoyChat Thought and Communication, himself, cannot possibly refrain from clicking on and reading this post while foaming at the mouth and having an aneurism…

You weren’t invited to this exchange.

…Just shut up…go back to the bed you’ve made, and lay in it.

…Nobody wants your venom, your Social Justice Warrior tactics, your creepy Mind Fuck games, your sociopathic lying, your abusive tripe, and your spineless concealment of who you are to this community, anymore.

The last couple of years aside…I’ve been watching you for years, and years…I already know exactly what you are all about…And I never need to hear, read, see, feel or smell anything from you, ever again.

Game of Thrones and BoyLove…

Date: July 24, 2016

01) Game of Thrones and BL

“I saw a hint of boylove in few episodes.”

Well, let’s see…

Right out of the gate, we have an ultra cute boy popping through a window, while Jamie and Cersie are going at it hot n heavy…

…But instead of doing the polite thing, and inviting Bran to join in…they push him back out the window, presumably to his death…

As an LBL, I was mortified by that alone…on multiple levels…It was like an ugly jab at LBLs, conscious or not.

…This just doesn’t sound like a BL story to me.

…I also started watching Game of Thrones, in no small part due to seeing a picture of Isaac Hempstead Wright…and comments from [BoyChat], that “pedophilia” was represented in the series…[Please, do not judge…I have the right to hope, just like anybody else.]

…While yes, many people will consider Khal Drogo and Daenerys Targaryen “pedophilic”…it’s still a bastardization of the term…and a disappointing bore.

[The actors are physically beautiful in their own ways, but that’s just not my thing.]

…What a let down, when Bran [and Rickon (and nipple sucking Robin, too)] was right there.

But who am I kidding…HBO was never going to give us anything really good, in this regard…Drogo and Daenerys are safe subject matter.

The Presumption of Harm…

Date: July 16, 2016

01) Re: Social Cohesion

I’m an LBL, also…with a pinch of hebephile in me.

Thank you for that response…

…Over many, many years…I’ve come to see the automatic assertion of harm, as being a baseless talking point.

What does it even mean…and how is it qualified?

Generally speaking…the “harm” appears to be a combination of having been turned onto the discovery of sex, and wanting to do it in a world that demands their celibacy…along with experiencing a life, which challenges social constructs…where being different in society is not valued…but often cursed by many.

Could they catch an STD?…I suppose, if care is not taken…

Could they be traumatized if it’s aggressively taken?…Yes…That is possible…

…But how does age difference even factor into it?…if there’s not forced compulsion to recognize “authority” within the relationship?

…Is “authority”, such an uncompromising wall?

…I think, it’s mostly just placed upon us as an argument…because the lofty concept behind it, is unattainable.

Real people living real lives, are not so rigid.

On ‘Ego’…

Date: July 05, 2016

01) Steve-D, on ‘ego’

Truth be told, most of the attacks I’ve faced, have been explicitly to demoralize me, and break my stride.

I can say this, because most such people have wanted to completely shut me down…and I’ve lost a few blogs [amongst other things], because of them…It’s about disruption…

However, from within our community…I think most of what I’ve encountered, is from bitter individuals…who’ve gone through so many of the same experiences as the rest of us…but, they’ve allowed themselves to devolve, into something which is a detriment to this community…

…They’ve suffered injuries, and they’ve chosen to take it out on this community…to blame this community, for everything bad that has ever happened…to never let us forget…and to punish us, for it.

I’m all for constructive criticism…including any aimed at me…But, the instance which inspired that bit of writing, was not constructive…It was just ugly, and malicious…just like most of what this person spews on BoyChat.

That person clearly looks most intent on killing BoyChat, and driving off as many good people as possible…and manipulating the dialogue here.

As to the first option…It’s dawned on me, yes…But nobody has ever said so much to me…And all of my friends should know, you can say these things directly to me…I would not take offense…[I’ve posed this exact question, on BoyChat]…It seems, few are around to approach me…or that they don’t want too, for whatever reason.

Probably my biggest regret, has been the isolating nature of being out here like this…I think, I’ve shed a lot of BC pals…even though I mentally feel, like we should be as tight as ever. There are a lot of people…I’m wondering where they are, and how they are doing…And I have no answers.

As to the second…yes, again…I think that plays a role…

…But, what is one to do…when they’ve found their place?

…I’m certain, some look at what I do, as being pathetic and useless…

…But they haven’t walked a mile in my shoes…and they don’t realize, the challenges I’ve faced, most of my life [which they probably never will]. My long term outlook, has been meager…since shortly into my adulthood…This has been because of circumstances, entirely out of my control…I’m astonished to still be alive, today…and it’s a horrible struggle, every single day.

What I have built and done…has been an option, within my grasp…

…Other people might be able to take the world, in various ways…I’ve never had that option…I’ve never had the option of “being normal”, not even in pursuit of a profession or a gainful living.

…I’ve always been the one who didn’t fit the mold…So, I took that and made an identity to celebrate…Because it’s who I am…and it’s the only thing I really can be, at my base.

I’ve spent my life doing what I can, with what I have…I’m prepared for the criticism that it wasn’t good enough…

…But I’m not prepared for accepting so much, from someone who has already surrendered…who just wants to drag us all down, with them.

If nothing else…I’ve maintained a personal sense of balance and sanity, in taking this personal control [however limited]…It’s meant the world to me, to be able to build a library of writings and recordings…

…If that isn’t enough incentive, to make what I’m doing right, or at least okay…then I just want to know what any naysayers would be saying, the day I had a mental meltdown, and started [insert your favorite social atrocity, here].

I’ve gone through some extremely dark times, over the last decade…And all I’ve had to hold onto, is my writing…and my creative activities…

…These have kept me going, and focused…I don’t know where else I’d be, without them.

…This is a value, nobody else can summarize…maybe even understand.

…Maybe some don’t think I’m a great representative…But, I’m real…reality is complicated.

I don’t want to be an icon…I just want to build a portrait, of what my life has honestly been…and I also want to maintain a helpful, hopefully uplifting resource…for human beings, who care about human beings.

I think there is a modern trend…

Date: July 05, 2016

01) BoyChat Link

“Btw, what is your feeling about why others around here (especially activists) have apparently been disinclined (?) to help get the word out more and link to these channels?”

I think there is a modern trend…

…to keep the more explicit talk of sexual acceptance, in the shadows.

I think there is a lot more emphasis on “we’re humans too”, and less on what makes us unique from others…and more emphasis on research, and the harms of punishment fanaticism.

I think…many believe this is a much easier path to fight, than bold, artistic expressions, which celebrate who we are, without apology.

…I think, many have surrendered that part of themselves.

I’ve always thought, the strident spirit of the BoyLover, and his [her] unique look on life, is a beautiful thing to celebrate…Which is why I like your content.

We weren’t born ‘not’ to be hurt (Narrated)…


Date: June 14, 2016

01) Inspired by this BoyChat thread…

This selection from “In Self Defense: The Life and Times of An Atheist BoyLover…Memoirs and Ethos”, has been narrated by Rocco White. Please enjoy the listen, or read along if you like…or need to.

One of the primary rules in life is…if you survive long enough, you will be hurt…maybe badly…maybe many times…and that’s just part of the whole experience…It’s what makes us evolve, and hopefully grow in better ways.

I never understood the desire to cocoon people, and to stop them from knowing what life is…or what it has in store…It just always seemed like a common sense thing to me…that if you expect anyone to be confident enough to thrive in this world…then you need to allow them to acclimate to this world…and grow from their experience.

…That includes a lot of crappy experiences…It does.

…And raising the bar so high, that nobody can reach the standards of “living a good life”…or “living an honorable life”, on account of the fact that…yes…sometimes, they wont be at their best…That is something I find so reprehensible…Because there is no such thing, as a relationship so perfect, that nobody hurts each other…short of the vaguest of associations.

While some people may fall all over themselves, rushing to define us in only the most negative of lights and degradation…

…I root for the underdogs, of all ages and social status…to eventually get a taste of life, and find a bit of happiness in this world before they die…after which, it’s just lost.

…One of the biggest tragedies in this world…is all the people who live life, never finding wholeness…never getting to realize what it means, to be at a true pinnacle in life…to never taste life, at it’s yummiest…

…Like many here [on BoyChat]…I’ve also expressed anger over these limited horizons, I live under…The anger has never been because of any sense, of self entitlement to sex…

…The anger, has always been rooted in never being afforded the honest opportunity…to even just prove myself worthy of the experience…

What’s going to hurt us more?…

…The normal dangers of living a life?…

…Or never learning how to navigate them?

You people out there, intending to “save us all” from the dangers of life…You so rarely understand, the damage you inflict on the lives, of even those who you love…

…Because, you are too wrapped up in your own obsession to “save us”…that you never figured out…what you are trying to shield us from…is exactly the thing we needed most, to attain wholeness for ourselves…


Rule of Thumb…

Date: March 08, 2016

01) Question

“Is the reason why non-abusing pedophiles aren’t united in calling out their less-than-stellar brethren the same reason why most blacks aren’t in any way united in demanding better behavior from that percentage of them that gives them as a whole a bad name?

I guess it could be that, because we go through the same struggles, even if we don’t resort to such depravity, we can understand how someone can go off the tracks and commit some horrible crime against a child?

It’s like we are afraid to be against ANYONE who is remotely like us, even when they are obviously not in a consensual relationship…”

Rule of Thumb…

…Wherever the facts of a case are left unclear…abstain from making any judgment about it, or the people involved.

But, here are a few more thoughts…

a) I’m sure a lot of us don’t really like focusing on those aspects, because we feel like we are already drowning in a world of pedophile phobic negativity, all around us…and we don’t really want to add to it, and the atmosphere it promotes.

For some of us, we try to stay focused on the positive when describing “pedophilia”…because that’s just what is so badly lacking, in it’s presence and representation.

b) Many of us hate the infighting, and the divisions it causes…And this topic can be a minefield.

…All the same, I can name at least one former BoyChatter, who was thoroughly condemned here, upon discovery of his actions…actions which led to fifty [or sixty, I don’t remember] years in prison.

There are a few people who have passed through BoyChat, and who are now in prison “for life”…and they don’t just deserve to be there…they need to be there.

The case [or two] I am talking about are so clearly indefensible and wrong…that even if we understood what the social pressures have done to them, as individuals…nothing could excuse what they did…It was a betrayal of the very concepts and ethics we promote here.

…They said one thing out in the open…then did something entirely different, while in hiding.

c) We can condemn a lot of things done by “pedophiles”…but does it have any true meaning, when our sources of information are so debased from objectivity?

I’m tired of reading news stories about “pedophiles” who’ve been investigated, tried and sentenced…and never even being able to figure out, what in the heck happened…What are we expected to condemn?…Whatever happened, is normally hidden behind euphemisms…terms that cover a myriad of activities…

…and I would not condemn all of those activities, nor consider them in any way equal to the worst inclusions.

We so rarely get a clear cut case…where we can say, “that was just wrong”…Not to imply they don’t exist…but…

…It’s nearly always felt like blindly shooting in the dark, to me.