www.SFTU.info 485. Create them then condemn them: hypocrites love ‘To Catch a Predator’…

Date: August 30, 2013

01) SFTU.info 485. Create them then condemn them: hypocrites love ‘To Catch a Predator’

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I cannot disagree with this.

When A Minor Comes Out (Narrated)…

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….	Date: August 30, 2013 This selection from “In Self Defense: The Life and Times of An Atheist BoyLover…Memoirs and Ethos”, has been narrated by Rocco White. Please enjoy the listen, or read along if you like…or need to. When a minor comes out as homosexual, not only are they publicly asserting themselves as being a sexual being, as well as some vague form of homosexual…they are also publically admitting that they fall into the bare minimum of at least one of three further categories… 1) They are attracted to adults of their own sex. 2) They are attracted to age peers of their own sex. 3) They are attracted to younger people [ie: children] of their own sex. If none of these attractions exist, then there is no valid reason for a minor to identify as homosexual…because that minor would not be homosexual. There is a substantive, sexual identity and nature, that comes with being homosexual. You either have these attractions and nature, or you don’t. …As such…we as a society either accept that these kids [minors] have these attractions and nature, or we do not…There is no middle ground…We either acknowledge it for what it is, in it’s entirety…or we are still denying these kids, what is fundamental to their own lives. …Even amongst the allegedly progressive and activist groups…most do not sincerely accept, let alone stand up for and defend, the homosexual child and the homosexual teen. Yes, of course…they give a lot of politically correct lip service, to “pride” and how “wonderful” it is homosexuals are feeling safe and secure enough to be coming out younger and younger… …But where is their true resolve, when the messy business of hair splitting starts, in the game of social politics?… …And oh, the issue of homosexual rights becomes so tricky, where it concerns the young…and the homosexual establishment having to stick it’s own neck out over the line… How do you even stand up for the sexual rights of “our” young…when the outward expression of sex, is itself illegal for these very same kids?…How do you empower and strengthen them, by supporting their bondage [as so many homosexual groups do]? You either accept that they are sexual human beings…or you are not accepting them…You either accept that at least one of the three categories listed above is the reality of their life…or you are rejecting them…And what do these categories say about these children and teens?… 1) They are attracted to adults of their own sex. …The “ultimate evil taboo”, inverted?… While I think it would be wrong to say, that all homosexual children and teens fantasize about sex with adults…common sense [and for many, their own personal experience] has got to enlighten us to the fact…that many homosexual young will mirror their heterosexual counterparts…And heterosexual kids typically do fantasize, about having sex with an adult of the opposite sex…Why would this not be true, for homosexual kids? Such an argument, that the same does not hold true for both groups, would be baseless…It would make no sense…It would betray logic…And it would be divorced from reality. For sure…the young still have their physical beauty, better than the rather old…So they may be more prone, to look amongst themselves for sexual companionship…Or, maybe it is that they are socially alienated, which keeps many of them from even trying to approach an older person…Any way we look at it, it still comes down to social ideals, and a wall of social intolerance…These are what shape sexual concepts in our own minds, and push each of us towards “what everybody else is doing”. It certainly is not that it is impossible, for a young kid to be sexually attracted to an adult…In fact, it’s quite typical and common…Truth be told…no matter what age we may have found ourselves at, as kids a lot of us have memories of having been randy enough, to want to experience physical sexual sensations with an adult…even if only to discover, just what it was like. …But it violates the social narrative, of “normal relationships”…Which shunts it off into a realm, where most people will not treat this issue with respect, importance or dignity…Most will not afford it a place to thrive and be beautiful [or at least meaningful], or an atmosphere to take any pride in itself. …Still…this coming out is supposed to be an issue of “pride”?…It is supposed to be a “good” thing?… How do you reconcile this?… …Is it every bit as “sick” and “deviant”, when the sexual desires are directed [and even initiated] from the young to the old?… …Are the young “sexual offenders” too, for choosing to violate these rigid social structures? Are they “mentally ill”, for doing what comes natural to them?…because certain other people, don’t want them to do it? Isn’t this really what it always comes down to, for sexual classes?…It’s all about who wants you to do what, and who is willing and able to punish for non-conformity… The point here…is that “category 1” is saddled with so much intolerance…it is outright insane, to suggest that they even can outwardly take pride in who they are… …It has already been dictated by the politically correct…that what they desire in their own sexual orientation, is “abhorrent”, “abnormal” and “extremely bad” [if not “evil”]. It is a paradox…What is there for them to be proud about, when nobody will even let them be themselves? 2) They are attracted to age peers of their own sex. While a bit more politically correct on the “power equality” argument…this is still a very dicey place for any homosexual child or teen to find themselves in…as well as for sexual rights organizations to confront. Sure, this does away with the complexities of expected adult/child social norms…but it does not get around the fact, that these attractions cannot be legally acted upon in many places…A lot of these kids are still legally “assaulting” each other, by mutually engaging in sex. …But I want to get back to the attraction, itself… …Allegedly, it is “normal”, so long as the kids involved are in some relatively [though, often still quite fuzzy] equal biological [or age] window… …But then, for some strange and unknown reason…this perfectly normal attraction which is supposed to be good, when it is “biologically equal”, is supposed to fade away as one gets older…and if it does not, then this previously normal, healthy and good attraction which was once to be celebrated, becomes “wicked”, “depraved”, “destructive” and “abusive”…”mentally ill”, even… …It starkly makes no sense… How is a “mentally ill” attraction, at any point in time “healthy”?… Where is this curious line, and the hard evidence to support it? …I think, there is no natural line at all…And this false dichotomy, of a normal childhood attraction morphing into a mental illness, depending on who is experiencing it…I think this is all social propaganda, to keep various sexual groups apart from each other…And I think, that is truthfully the only purpose that it serves. So…do these kids continue to get a pass?…Will the politically correct, have their cake and eat it too?… Aren’t these kids we are all so proud of, exhibiting early signs, of an “alarming sexual deviancy”?… How are they even to be distinguished, from “sexual molestation victims, who go all pervy because they were molested”? …And given how “horrible” the outward enactment of these acts is alleged to be…one would think the kids of “category 2”, could never experience anything other than fear and shame… How does “pride” find it’s way around this maze? 3) They are attracted to younger people [ie: children] of their own sex. From the frying pan, into the fire… …The young, wanting the younger…my goodness… This is, yet again, one more complicated factor being introduced into all of this “prideful” coming out. While I do not personally see anything nasty or terrible about that kind of expression of physical intimacy…I don’t see how the kids in “category 3”, can ever be anything but disenfranchised…not only from “normal society”, but from even the very groups who claim to fight on their behalf, as a member of a sexual minority. Would those groups ever even acknowledge these kids, with these specific attractions, and doing those kinds of things?… …Even as these same groups like to claim those kids as “their own” [so long as they’ve not been socially tainted by some scandal], I don’t believe a single darn one of them would outwardly define, outline and defend the sexual nature of kids in “category 3″…. The reality of the kids in this group, is outright radioactive, to those kinds of “rights” groups…Heck, the homosexual rights groups are likely to run from this, abandon those kids, or even throw them onto the “sexual deviancy” trash heap. …Is there honestly any “pride”, for these kids? I think, when you start digging deeper…you begin to discover, that too much of what these “homosexual rights” groups do…is based upon a premise, that is a lie…That most of these groups are thoroughly divorced, from the root goals [and causes] of the sexual liberation movement…That they are mostly ineffectual at liberation, while at the same time being agents of social stagnation…And that they are much too politically correct, sterilized and meek, to confront the issues on their true terms. I think, “representation and nurturing of homosexual youth”, is probably the single most disingenuous “cause”, that “homosexual rights” groups have embroiled themselves in, today. …These groups are so mixed up, they cannot even figure out how to approach the natural sexuality of homosexual kids…even though, these exact same people presumably experienced it all themselves… …Yeah, sure…it exists…when the need for funds and “social awareness” arrives, and these groups want to justify their own existence…But, it only exists in a sterile, not entirely human way…so that it never offends. That is not “representation”…That is a fair weather friend, who’s happy to have you when there is something in it for them…but they conceal the proverbial knife, behind their own back.	….
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Answering Questions…

Date: August 12, 2013

01) Please answer my question, Steve

Hi Will! 🙂

If we were integrated into society, like anybody else, there flatly would not need to be special invasive laws to address these issues.

Instead of us being forced to live in secrecy, there would be a much wider network of accountability.

What you bring up…”pimping”, etc…there already are laws to address these things…The question becomes how to apply existing laws, and tailor them to cases, which society is not presently accustomed to approaching in a sane and balanced way.

To answer your question…In the natural and sane world, we would be out in the open, entirely approachable and open to scrutiny, like everybody else. In other words, the wider communities we found ourselves living in, would have a much more direct “hands on” effect, on what was going on in our own lives.

This is how things naturally should be, in my opinion…

I don’t see where signing contracts and agreeing to pay personal resources for some extended period of time, is going to change the trustworthiness of the individual in question…and I have to reiterate, that this is bound to turn into some type of “system of privilege”…and be quite vulnerable, to certain forms of child pimping.

As I interpret it…Your question boils down to, “how do we get society to change, without implementing something like these contracts?”…

Contracts are bound to introduce all sorts of things to these natural relations, which frankly should not even be in the conversation…because they hold no weight, regarding the rightness of the relationship…We are not going to convince anyone with contracts, who was not already convinced beforehand.

“Hands on” inclusion and personal seeing, leading to understanding, is what needs to take place…It is one of the reasons, why all forms of “child pornography” need to be decriminalized…Hiding who and what we are [including our sex acts] from the mainstream public, must come to an end.

This is a genuine solution, because when everyone can finally see for themselves what typically goes on, and they can judge it objectively…they can no longer justify malicious prohibition against us…And if they continue to do so, then they will lose personal credibility…and they will marginalize themselves.

Stated another way…when everyone else can see what we do, in a concrete way…others will no longer have a free pass to lie about us.

Remove the plane realities of who we are, and what we are inclined towards, from the mental imaginations of everybody else…and give them something concrete in the real world, to judge and understand us by.

It won’t get us liberation tomorrow…It might get some of us murdered…It will be a precious seed, to protect and grow…But probably the single most important battel for us to fight and win, is stopping others from concealing us behind malicious stereotypes.

That is the true issue, which is breathing fire down our necks, right now…

If the day comes, when people decide they want to start implementing private contracts over this sort of thing…I can’t dictate, what everybody else does…But I do still have a very ill feeling, about trying to break down an intimate relationship like that, to a sterile and invasive contract.

…Humans weren’t meant to live like that…

That is my answer…If they don’t even know who we are and what we are about…then contracts won’t mean a thing.

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Do note, that I also have great respect for you, Will. I don’t look badly on what you and Etenne are doing here…In fact, I think it is productive to vet ideas…

…I would even support an archive, of wide ranging ideas and proposals of this nature [how we might integrate into society, successfully]…Maybe, someone could take it up at Boywiki…

At the same time…I am just giving a sincere response, as someone all too weary of the endless manner in which laws encroach upon our lives.

Dealing with contracts, means dealing with a system that is already rotten…Which means taking upon ourselves rotten practices, as compromise…But then, I am looking at what exists right now…And I don’t believe what exists today, even can be wagered with…We don’t know what will exist, down the line…We do know, what exists right now must be neutralized.

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I feel I should reiterate something…

…That being the point, there are safeguards in place in any social system…Probably the main reason why so many people believe “we” fall through the cracks, is because we are not well plugged into that social system [network, or whatever you want to call it].

Remove the hyper suspicion surrounding us, the phobia and hatred, and most of us should be able to fit in just fine.

Do “we” need special attention?…

…Well…people leave their children in the care of babysitters all the time, without a contract…They don’t always know these people well…Likewise, when junior wants to spend the night at a friend’s house, the parents don’t usually sign contracts.

…On the flip side…schools and any professional groups, have their forms and contracts which must be signed…

I guess the question is…are we to be treated as a private matter, or as a…I don’t know…”professional” one?

The structure for behavioral standards, for intervention, for consequence…this already exists. The problem, is that it does not treat people like us, with the respect we deserve.

I am not going to make up, or meticulously type down a whole list of rules, agencies and such that “need to exist” in order to put everyones mind to rest…Maybe, I could produce a decent idea or two…but it would be speculation, at best.

We need a much better set of circumstances than what currently exists, in order to implement any of the technical specifics we might discuss right now. When that day comes, numerous steps will have occurred…our kind will be more visible and understood…and the various groups making up society, will have had probably decades to work out their differences, and learn to live with each other.

We don’t know that our kind will even be judged in the same eyes, when that day comes…We don’t know what society is going to be like, then.

I prefer to leave these kinds of micro details, to the minds of those living in a time…where some chance exists they might come to fruition.

Then again…maybe it is useful, for the purpose of winning some people over…Showing that at least we are trying, and that this kind of love can exist, in many social contexts…even our own, modern day.

It is about more than that…

Date: August 12, 2013

01) Parents Shmarents !!

[Note: Someone who calls themself “Blow Me”, took issue with my “Parents Must Be On Board” post.]

It is about more than that…

…and in case there is any question, I am an LBL [Little Boy Lover]…

From my perspective, we are not getting rid of the parents…And it would be ludicrous, for anybody to suggest that in this world, we can just sidestep the parents.

If you are a TBL [Teen Boy Lover], you may very well have a lot more “wiggle room”…

…It is not practical to think, that parents won’t come with the deal when you are an LBL.

On the flip side, this does not mean you have to be best buddies with the parents…But those parents do have a responsibility, to make sure that a BL isn’t some complete wack job who’s going to end up biting their sons dick off…or worse.

…Lets be sensible, here.

Sure, children should choose if they want it, and who they want it with…But we are not going to get rid of the parent factor…They are relevant characters in this.

Our introduction into their lives, changes the dynamics of their lives…both child and parents.

…You aren’t seriously going to deny, that they have a valid voice in all of this, are you?

Human relations demand mutual give and take…It’s not all just “take! take! take!”.

If you don’t understand this…Then you haven’t even begun to understand, what it takes to have intimate relations with other humans.

Is the Law Always an Enemy?…

Date: August 11, 2013

01) The common law can help us

“I disagree with you, Steve, that law is always an enemy.”

…And I disagree with both that statement [“law is always an enemy”], and the premise behind it [that I’ve ever expressed this]…So, how are we in disagreement? 🙂

The law is very commonly a source of conflict…as a result there is a lot of complaining about it, but I have never believed or stated that the law is universally bad.

In a better world than this, laws would protect and support people like us…It is possible, yes.

Given as many years as I’ve been beating this drum, I would hope it is clear to most…even if much of my heart lies with anarchist and naturalist principles, I accept that legal systems are going nowhere…and we must work within them.

We have to begin from a base of mutual respect and understanding, however…otherwise, all of this is just meaningless talk…I suppose, this may be why I have a tendency towards blatant and bold representations and distinctions…And why I think they are so important…And why it bothers me so bad, when most fail to recognize certain important distinctions…Distinctions which should be obvious, blatant and bold, in my opinion.

I really don’t disagree with you in principle, Will…

…I just think a mainstream system of contracts is bound to shun, and sidestep a lot of us.

Is this what BoyLove means, when institutionalized in modern culture?

If so…that would be a tragedy, and another miscarriage of justice.

You can’t legislate the human, out of human beings. It is time for the legal system to stop beating its own head up against the wall [along with that of everyone else], trying to run in that direction.

It is time that even “the romantics” be respected as human beings, who make valid points and who have rights.

So long as we are causing no genuine harm…it is time the system learned to live with us, as we are.

The last thing I think would be helpful, is some system which is bound to end up acting like a de facto, pre-screened “relationship tribunal for pedophiles”…which also has far reaching financial stipulations and obligations.

…Who is going to be “good enough”?…What is the criteria?…

Whatever happened to the day, when people could just be and live?…and get along, based on the merits of their own nature?…

…Or did that day never exist?

…perhaps it should exist, for once.

Don’t say it is impossible…It honestly is not.

[Note: Thank you for the link, Will. I have some understanding on common law, but I’d be hard pressed to explain much about it…It’s been years, since I’ve done any reading about common law.]

Really Bad Apples…

Date: August 11, 2013

…They get feted out, naturally.

The thing about really bad apples, is that they are going to do their thing regardless. No amount of law is going to stop this…no matter how excessive the law.

One of the biggest faults of our society, is that it so commonly penalizes everybody, over the actions of the worst amongst us.

…Is it romanticizing the situation, to acknowledge this monumentally screwed up point?…

I think it is an entirely fair assessment.

Probably the single worst thing we are shackled with, and what keeps us down socially…is being blamed for every potentially bad thing, that could ever happen in any scenario involving both sex and a legal minor…

…It is a false blame, which we do not even deserve.

What is needed, is a truce and a mutual understanding amongst those of good character and will…A symbiotic relationship, can naturally grow from this…Bad apples, should never come between this…

…And society will deal with bad apples, in the same manner it usually does.

People should not be forced to stop living a meaningful life, on the argument that bad apples live amongst us in this world.

A good apple, should live free.

Parents Must Be On Board…

Date: August 11, 2013

Parents Must Be On Board

This should be etched into our own list of “ten commandments”, where it comes to seeking social change as Child-Lovers and Teen-Lovers.

There is no getting around the point, that parents are vital and important…They are allies to be sought after.

In an ideal setting, parents will recognize us as being an advantageous resource to them…an expansion of options, in raising their own children…We help ease burdens, and maybe find it easier to advise and care for the child [or teen] in ways the parent cannot, or does not want to.

We are not an adversary, nor a threat…We are like “an extra right arm”, as an old dear friend analogy goes…

I think, this is a message we should be promoting.

What of Experience for Its Own Meaning?…

Date: August 11, 2013

01) The price of our liberation

It’s not that I disagree with you in principle, Etenne…

…I just don’t see how I can defend something like this, if it is too rigid to allow for spontaneous experiences…or if it prohibits an open mind…or if it ends up having a class discrimination effect.

“I believe that we should be held legally responsible for our former young friend’s wellbeing. (Up to a certain age)”

I can’t disagree, that when you are intimately involved in someones life, you hold a certain responsibility to them…At the same time, I have to ask what “legally responsible for our former young friend’s well being. (Up to a certain age)” implies.

Does it mean we have to feed and clothe them?…have a spare bedroom for them?…pay the fines, if they get into legal trouble?…put them through college, and pay various living expenses throughout their early life?…

Of course…any decent BL would naturally do something of this nature, even if it were only on a small level…

…But isn’t the first and fundamental benefit offered by a BL, simply being that person who is older yet not a parent?…and being someone who offers a chance and a place, where things outside of the ordinary [for a boy] can happen?

These things should not be like getting married…They are simply part of human life…They should not be fouled up, by the legal system and judges, lawyers and contractual papers.

…Which comes to yet another issue…money, and the discrimination against those who don’t have it…or enough of it, to afford all of this…

A BoyLover does not stop being a BoyLover, even if they live in deep poverty…A Boy does not stop being a Boy, no matter what their living conditions…Mutual needs can and should be met, no matter what social class the people involved find themselves in.

There must be checks and balances, and there must be an “out” alternative for all boys…there must be a way, to do outreach and to police our own communities [and I am talking about stopping the really messed up stuff, not micromanagement of everybodies life]…but creating a rigid contractual structure mired down in legal practice, in my opinion would greatly damage the heart of who and what we are…

…Some things in life just exist, for the sake of their own existence…No, you won’t die if you never experienced them, but it may be a tragic shame to have never had the choice…Some people find higher meaning in life…the most important meaning in life, through those kinds of experiences [whatever they may be]…You may have been robbed of something important to you, in the context of your own life, if you were prohibited from something you are naturally inclined towards…And by extension you may find that you have never truly lived, because you never had those experiences you needed in life.

I think, this is why humans are so widely different…No matter how “weird” you may be…if you look long and far enough, you will eventually find someone who matches your personality and your kinks…I think there is someone, and likely several someones, out there for everybody…It’s just a question of whether or not they will ever find each other…and whether or not it will be tolerated.

This is what being a BoyLover is all about…It is humans being human, in their own particular sort of way…We are a choice and an option, for certain kinds of life experience…not a market for the highest bidder on “boy tail”.

…Any contract or license imposed by the legal system, is meaningless…and a slap in the face, at best…It reminds me of the stories of black slaves who got their own freedom, yet still had to carry around legal papers to verify they were “free men”…Is that what we want?…Is that what we deserve?…Is that what is right?…Is that the way things should be?

There must be a wider social structure surrounding these types of relationships…But trying to bring the legal system into this, and have it govern private, intimate human relations?…Now that is truly perverse…

…And yes, I will go on the record as saying…these social contracts may have been promoted, and may have even worked out well over all, in ancient Greece and Rome [etc.]…but that hardly means that those are examples of Man/Boy love in a natural setting, amongst naturally inclined participants…and as such, I think they had their ethical shortcomings…and they perverted Man/Boy love in their own way…likely giving birth, to a lot of the stigma and baggage we suffer today.

I think trying to model a modern day social role for Man/Boy love based upon ancient Greece and Rome, would be bad…It is just a wrong direction, which commodifies human intimacy into a service exchanged for social advancement, instead of leaving it to the realm of personal life enrichment. People do not choose who they have sex with, and commonly don’t even want to have sex with their “partners”, in these kinds of arrangements.

…Human sexuality and human intimacy mean more than that…Or, at least they do in my eyes.

They mean, “I will choose you, if you will choose me”…They mean, two people fitting together and filling each others needs…. They mean discovering and growing together, as humans…They mean nurturing and fulfillment.

Sex at its best, is the exchange of loving sensations…It is a healing experience…If you are an actual lover, then this is your ultimate focus and goal when having sex.

Rose City: My Actual BoyChat Response…

Date: August 06, 2013

01) BoyChat Response

What I Am Finding So Disturbing About This…

…is that character reference testimony during the sentencing part of any trial, is both commonplace and is supposed to be encouraged by the “justice system”…They are not just a right…They are an integral part, of the court process…and of sentencing, itself…

…and these six people got chewed out by the judge, for participating in a process which is mandated to happen in the court room?

I am absolutely positive, this is not the first time in history that a convicted person has been defended as human, and deserving of leniency…even in this specific type of case.

…In some cases, it is a common sense assessment.

It is alarming to witness a group, attempting to interfere with the legal process on this sort of a level.

People should never face this sort of threat, when honestly giving character testimony.

…This is one of the reasons, why the “justice system” has gone straight to hell…Intimidation, vendettas and retribution, are all rife within it.

…No system in this sorry state, can ever align itself with justice.

The TOR Panic of 2013…

Date: August 06, 2013

01) Freedom hosting on Tor pedo sites compromised

02) Founder of the Freedom Hosting arrested, held without bail in Ireland, awaiting extradition to the USA

03) ‘Largest facilitator of child porn on planet’ must wait month for FBI case

04) Feds bring down Tor-hosted child porn site using suspected vulnerability in Firefox browser

05) News Article

06) TOR Developers Advise Stop Using Windows

First…All of the BC threads are worth reading.

Second…On a personal note…Given enough time, this sort of serious security failure [which has taken even experienced users, and the developers themselves, by surprise] is entirely predictable.

The “false sense of security” principle, applies to people using TOR, encryption [SSL, PGP, etc.], or any number of security programs…It is safe and secure, only up until the point where it is not safe and secure…And by the time a serious security breach is discovered, it is already too late for many…Those unfortunates will be unaware, until something happens to make them aware…And whatever aftermath follows.

I use TOR, and I have done very shallow exploration of “the deep web”…Not recently, but yes…And I am pretty certain I’ve visited the web pages, of a few services hosted by Freedom Hosting…like TORmail, for example…maybe a live chat service…To be completely honest, it is hard to find “deep web” sites…They are mostly just linked, at “index” pages, which set the course for wherever you end up…And Freedom Host websites, seem to be very well represented. Mostly, I just use TOR, when I do not want the owner of a website [on “the open net”] I am visiting, to get my IP address…Though, I often just use a regular proxy for that…TOR is very useful, but at the same time…it is not a complete security package…It is one part, of a security plan.

I consider myself a realist, when it comes to “internet security”…Ultimately, anything can be cracked and exploited…no matter how much, you think you have done your due diligence…Are these things worthwhile? …yes…But they are absolutely not fail safe…and due to their complexities, it is often hard to know when you are making a misstep, while using all of this great software…Again, I am a realist, and I have felt the sting of some security compromise threaten me too many times…even when I thought the circumstances were safe. My coping mechanism, has been to embrace this reality…and to stop lying to myself, with false security blankets.

I will concede, I have never tried TAILS though…and I am quite intrigued by it…But I think it is bound to be a complete mess, trying to juggle TAILS with my blogging and the various other things I do online…I only use flash drives for backups…I don’t trust them enough, to regularly use them for frequently accessed storage [like a hard drive replacement]…I’m also not excited about having just “another thing”, to synchronize with the rest of my stuff, such as the flash drive content is guaranteed to become. I think this is the main reason why I have never tried it…I think it is very likely to get in the way and be annoying.

My sympathies are with those out there feeling compromised, perhaps betrayed…

Third…I have been using the TOR Browser Bundle for years…and I have to admit, that I thought the whole idea behind this bundle, is to have an “isolated” web browser which only sends and receives information through TOR. I am aware of third party services like YouTube, being able to snag your IP, because that sort of content won’t go through TOR…but I thought the TOR Browser was optimized, to simply not allow that sort of content…at all…Finding out something like this, is disturbing.

Fourth…let me attempt to give a layman’s summary, on what has happened.

TOR is a “fetching system”, which uses three layers of proxies…These are not typical online proxies, but a more private network of clients more akin with “peer to peer”. The whole idea behind TOR, is to create several layers between your machine, and the machine you are accessing data from, while at the same time leaving no way to trace the request back to you. TOR does not encrypt anything, between your machine and the immediate machine you are sending/receiving information from…the entry/exit node, I believe it is called. There are a number of ethical reasons, why somebody might have a need for something like TOR.

TOR hosts nothing…It simply fetches what you request it to…This is part of why people are still saying, TOR itself has not been compromised…or, it still works as intended…They always knew about the potential for browser exploits…They just was not expecting something quite like this.

Freedom Host is a service with loose standards and loose enforcement, which operated on the dark net, and was apparently only accessible through TOR [though I may be wrong about that last part] …Allegedly, “child pornography” was hosted on some websites, on the Freedom Host server.

Some of these sites were openly described as such, on “index” pages which I referenced earlier…which is one of the reasons, why I have never gone back to explore the .onion dark net…It was a pretty brazen atmosphere, making itself a big target.

Somehow, the FBI discovered who owns Freedom Hosting…they got access to the host server…planted some type of script on various websites, hosted by that server…and these scripts exploited a Firefox 17 [for Windows] security hole…causing some people’s machines to secretly make contact with an entirely separate server, entirely outside of the TOR network…Or in other words, their machine was forced to make contact with an FBI server, over the open internet, without their knowledge, when they visited certain “Freedom Hosting” websites. This gave up their IP address to the FBI, and allowed the FBI to see who was visiting those “Freedom Hosting” websites…Apparently, it also snooped on any cookies existing on the machine, and forwarded that information.

It is good to know, several things needed to be true in order to have gotten hit by this.

Apparently, this was a javascript exploiting a security hole in Firefox 17…and the TOR Browser Bundle is based on Firefox…so it has the same defect…

…What a mess.

…Part of me has wanted to investigate setting up a presence on the .onion dark net, just like I’ve previously had an interest in a presence on Freenet…Then stuff like this happens, and it leaves you wondering “what is the use?”…